We were out sailing on Wednesday and my friend, Mark, took a video. I am self-taught on this boat and haven’t had a sailing class since the early '90s, to it occurred to me that I might be able to learn something if I posted the video and asked for advice. So here it is:
If you have any advice about anything you see - sailing, safety, please feel free to share it. (We did actually tighten the luff a little bit after this, but I never tighten it really hard due to nerves after my repairs last winter.)
You may notice some damage to the stack pack. That happened during transport from Alameda last year. It still works fine and is really hard to remove for repairs, so it will have to wait.
I have no advice as things look pretty good, but your video raised a question - what is the source of the arm that is holding your chartplotter neatly off to the side of the wheel post? I fashioned a shelf to go between the two posts (and sadly partially over the compass) but that side mount looks better.
Thanks
Jon
Jon Lewit
N26C Inua - still waiting to relocate from Forked River, NJ to Kingston, NY
That arm came with the boat. It is an Edson accessory for the binnacle and I suspect it is more expensive than I would pay for if it hadn’t already been there. I drilled some holes in the mount for the display to match those in the arm.
All looks good to me, too, here. No major advice that comes to mind, other than that you’re crew looks happy so you should keep doing what you’re doing.
It looks like you went outside San Diego Harbor with Point Loma showing up well in the background. That makes for nice sailing. I had a big catamaran in Chula Vista Harbor for a while 20 years ago, and had fun doing broad reaches in the harbor along the Coronado peninsula between their and the bridge, in addition to the off-shore sailing. Miserable slog to Catalina, though.
For those who don’t play in the “Oh, happy to pay Edson prices,” financial league, SeaDog and another of other folks make very usable rail clamps in the $20-30 range. You can do better than Amazon both pricewise and ethically, but if you’re into convenience, here’s a link to them:
It’s very easy to attach these to pedestal or side rails and use spare material to fashion a mount that will serve as well as Edson’s for a LOT less. How good it looks depends on how good you are with tools and materials.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Marina del Rey, California
Maybe I need to think more about what to show in a video. Things were going well here which is why Mark took that one and then I thought about posting it here after I got home. But I’ll try and get him to take another when things are not going so well.
Yes, I get tired just going half way to Mission Bay and I can’t imagine going all the way to Catalina on a day like this, though Ensenada would probably be a piece of cake. (Winds were NW.) We’ve done a lot better on the rare day when winds are from the south or SW. Mostly we just try to get out far enough to see dolphins and whales and really enjoy getting there and back under sail.
Hi Brian,
Great idea to share a video and solicit advice. I’m new to NonSuch ( we also have a NS33 ) so I don’t have any old sage boat specific advice.
Looking at your instruments, your boat speed is good ( 7.3 kts ) pretty close to hull speed which I think is 7.5 or so for a NS33. If you want to go down the rabbit hole of sail trim, you might add some telltales to your luff and leach. They help you visualize airflow over your sail and also have the undesirable downside of making you wish for a newer sail when your current sail is only half used up.
I’m still learning the Nonsuch, but on a beam reach pictured in your video, I’ve seen increased boat speed with the main eased a bit more and a tad more draft ( eased choker ).
In your next post, include your true and apparent wind speed and direction… and also your speed ( STW or SOG ).
Hoping to get out today and if I do I’ll get some shots of Soave and post here.
Thanks, Rob.
The boat speed shown is SOG from the GPS in the display and I’ll try and remember to include that if we video a problem day. We actually hit 8.0kts SOG that day, too, so I don’t know how close it tracks with actual water speed given the calculated hull speed. I know that eyes were big at that time.
My water speed sensor is broken. I have a repair kit and a plug and it is supposedly removable from the through-hull with the boat in the water, but it has been in there for so long that I am nervous about trying it. My experience with things in general is that something will be rusted up or crusted up or stiff or whatever and water will come gushing in. Since I don’t race and have the SOG on the display, I have just decided to wait until it’s hauled for repainting in another year or so and fuss with it then. Even then, it is an old SeaTalk1 instrument and I have yet to interface any of my SeaTalk1 instruments to the NMEA2000 network. I’ll probably get to it this winter.
I saw some telltales at West Marine one day a few months ago and wondered if I should have some. But I don’t know where it would be best to put them to get the most useful information. I would be interested to know where you or others put them on your sails. Also, there were a few different options. Are some better than others?
I have a NS30U, I recall seeing in the manual there is info on recommended placement of telltales on the sail luff. You may find this in your manual too.
Don
I too am puzzled by where to locate tell tales. Do you put them at the end of the battens and/or at other locations? What about at the draft or some point along the chord of the sail?
Hi Brian,
I’m on Soave now, but unfortunately we’ve got a stiff NNW breeze making for a difficult departure from the dock. We’ll hang out to see if it lightens up… most likely I’ll post pictures another day.
Soave came with telltales and I have no complaint about placement, next time I have the sail up I’ll snap a picture. The brand of telltales I used on my Flying Scot was Davis Air-flow. Any light synthetic fabric would work OK.
I’d start with the leech telltales which are the ones to use when reaching ( and the easiest to place). The placement I am used to is about an inch higher than a batten and far enough back so that most of the telltale can flap freely behind the sail. I usually place a telltale every other batten ( save the extras to replace the one that get shaken off ).
I’ll bet that once you have leech telltales, they will tell you that you are overtimed when reaching. Ease your main till they flow straight back from the sail, then experiment with speed and balance (neutral helm). Many boats balance out with good speed when the top leech batten curls back but the others are flying straight back. I haven’t experimented enough on Soave to know when she’s happy.
When beating the luff telltales are helpful, but honestly you can get a pretty good idea by just heading up ( or easing the main) and waiting till for the mail visibly luff to see how close you are to optimal pointing. Luff telltales on a mainsail are tricky to place because placement depends on the sails draft. Soave’s draft seems pretty far aft compared to other boats I’ve sailed… my thought is maybe her sail is in it’s twilight. If/when I order a new sail for Soave, I would definitely ask the sailmaker to place the luff telltales because they know exactly where they designed the draft to be.
I see your sail has draft stripes, if you look close you might see some dirt patches above and/or below the middle stripe from the leftover adhesive where previously installed telltales were attached. If you find a pattern to the dirt patches, that is probably where the telltales were.
( HERE ) is a link to a basic overview of telltale placement.
Have fun playing with sail trim… sorry for the verbose note… I had lots of extra time at the dock waiting for the wind die down..
Sorry I maybe mistaken about the telltale info being in the manual. I just looked in the NS30U manual, but cannot find it. I must have seen it somewhere else, perhaps on papers I have on the boat. I will have a look there later.
In the meantime, I have about 4 or 5 telltales along the leech of the sail, where the batten pockets are. But it is not necessary to put them in line with the battens, these were there when I bought he boat.
I also added telltales at the luff. Bought Davis Instruments telltale kit #950, West Marine sells for US$12.49. Set of 14 telltales with adhesive pieces to attach to sale, 7 red + 7 green. I don’t have exact measurements as to where I put them, and don’t have the info referred to above, so I estimate start by putting one telltale about 1/3 of the way down between mast joint and boom, and 4 ft aft of luff. Then another 2ft directly aft, and another 2 aft again. So now you have 3 in a row, bow to stern. Then put a matching set on the other side, green on starboard, red on port. Clean the sail in the spots where you are attaching the adhesive bits with a little rubbing alcohol. Give this a try sailing, and if okay, add a second set below the first about 2/3 of the way below mast joint to boom.
You may also want to give some consideration of placing them on the sail where you can easily see them taking into account the canvas in your cockpit.
I too am puzzled by where to locate tell tales. Do you put them at the end of the battens and/or at other locations? What about at the draft or some point along the chord of the sail?
Yes, I remember seeing that guide. I think it is on the boat. Thank you Don and Helen! That will be useful for more than just telltale placement. I wish I’d remembered it earlier, but the truth is that I might not have been ready for it then, anyway.
Hi Brian,
Yesterday, we finally got out in some decent wind and I took some photos showing the placement of our telltales ( TTs ). On a beam reach and deeper, I focus mostly on leech TTs. As you sail higher luff TTs become more important. Both are visible in my photos. My luff TTs are about 2’ back from the luff. Given the shape of my sail I might try another set about a foot aft if/when we start racing. ( probably should consider a new sail if we like racing for more than just a learning opportunity.)
We sail on LIS and the last three days had easy wind so sea was lumpy (2-4’ ). We experienced high tide during our sail so current was slack, which is handy because our speedometer was stuck during our first 20 mins of our sail (SOG is a good approximation of STW without current ). Our wind was NE at about 14.
When I took the pictures we were on a beam reach with speeds fluctuating from 6.5 to 8. ( mostly 6.9 only higher for brief intervals of surfing ). Our hull speed is 7.5 but I haven’t been able to consistently hold it at the speed yet ( bottom, sail, skipper issues ). While we were out, a friend double handing his J121 main only blew by us… AIS reported his speed as 10.5. We were dry and comfortable, they were exposed enough to get sprayed a bit, but they were mostly dry and having lots of fun playing with some changes he made to his water ballast vents. Sorry for meandering… yesterday was fun at many levels
( HERE ) is a photo showing our true and apparent wind. AW slightly forward of beam and TW slightly aft. This is my favor display when I’m trying to sort out trim questions… next is STW ( when our speedo is working ).
( HERE ) is a shot showing the trim that seemed fastest ( to me ). Top TTs slightly stalled the rest flying. Seemed like more weather helm than I would have liked, helm was at about 10:30 ( o’clock ).
( HERE ) is a shot showing all leech TTs flying which reduced weather helm slightly ( about 11:00 ), but ( too me )seemed slower ( but very close). Some folks swear this is fastest, for me it depends on conditions, sails, and boat. I may have a prejudice because of many years racing Flying Scots where you are getting power from both you Main and Jib or Spinnaker. Really nice (and fast) when you can balance to neutral helm.
( HERE ) is a shot showing all leech TTs stalled which is something that happens to me a lot on Soave if I’m not vigilant. LOTS of weather helm wheel at about 9:30.
