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Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
1

One last posting before I go dark for another week.

I really would like to get some feedback from someone (or two) people who just want to be left alone to use email on Google. If you contact me (jonlewit@gmail.com) I think I can do the setup steps and all you will have to do is respond to one email with a click to verify your email address. Emails postings will just flow from there. I know this is like offering a free cleaning to someone who hates dentists, but I thought it was worth a try to get some feedback from the “leave me alone” group. It can be shut off as well.

If you haven’t visited the Discourse site recently,

https://n26-115-233.discourse.group/latest

in the past day there have been some new postings - they are listed under Latest on the home page, or click here:

Comparing Navigation Apps (from Facebook)

(nothing interesting here yet)

Bilge pumps, besides for the manual what you done

Spinnakers, more thoughts?

Using dyneema on a Nonsuch

Main sheets - oversized?

Chafing caused by Bungee Snubbers

Restoring the Hull - Am I Working with Gelcoat or Paint

Be Well,
Jon Lewit
N26C #115 - Inua - Kingston, NY (where it is now snowing again)

2

Ooh ooh! Pick me!

3

Is that you frantically waving your hand??

OK - you could do this yourself… but if you want to have me go through the steps, that’s OK - I did offer…

Let me give it a shot - - -

Actually, I can avoid a PITA giggling with email addresses, if you would just fill in the Invite page, and then if you want I’ll do the Profile. click the link below. You’ll have to remember your name, etc.

https://n26-115-233.discourse.group/invites/Xaf3sdJDr1

4

If it works now, I don’t understand what has to be changed and why.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

5

Sounds like a promotion… “as seen on TV” … what’s TV ? Times are a changin !

I’ve tried Discourse and understand the differences, some features I like and others I don’t.

All things considered, I prefer Google mostly due to the tone of the conversations, which may reflect the interests of the participants rather than the platform. I tend to look for ways to maintain and preserve Soave rather ways to change her.

All three ( Facebook, Google, Discourse ) seem to have appeal to different participants. It may be unhealthy for INA to ask members to give up what they know and like.

Perhaps offering all three platforms allows participants and more importantly volunteers to choose which platform they are most comfortable using.

A couple dozen like minded participants can generate interesting conversations. Discourse is about to cross that threshold and will continue to grow if it can attract volunteers to administer it and like minded participants to use it.

I haven’t noticed any decline in the use of the other two platforms ( Facebook and Google ). Google seems more active if you count the Discourse promotions. So it’s all good.

Let’s give folks some time to explore both and see what shakes out.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

6

Maybe I should have offered 25% off if you respond before August 2026.

I was hoping to attract a couple of new people, who are dyed in the wool email participants, to try Discourse in order to get some feedback on how it compares to Google. Revisiting the sign-up process, I am pretty sure that I can set up an account for someone (if need be) just requiring them to click on one email to confirm their email address. That’s pretty painless.

We are basically nearing the end of the trial and Discourse has over two dozen users.

If we like analogies, I traded in my car, which was running perfectly fine, for a new one with additional features. (b.t.w. the rear cross traffic alert is great)

I think that coexistence for an extended period is an option, although not ideal. People who also use Discourse will still receive all of the Google postings via email, but if Google users don’t at least visit the Discourse site now and then, or opt in to getting digest postings, they will miss what is going on there.

OK - how about 35% off?

Jon Lewit
N26C #115 - Inua - Kingston, NY

7

I agree- the current setup is working and is easy to use. Creating another way to communicate will likely dilute the group further IMO. Seen it happen to other groups I’ve been involved with in the past…

8

Rob: That’s the word I couldn’t think of - “DILUTE”. Your quite correct about what could happen. Suppose we lost all those older experienced Nonsuchers with their experience and knowledge!!

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

9

I agree with Joe, I do not need or want another place to have to look for Nonesuch information. Don’t dilute us.

Ns26C
Sea Horse
SASSASFRAS RIVER, MD

10

Keep what we have – it works well! Bob Horne, 1989 N26C #249, ENCORE, Pocasset, MA

11

Keep what we have – it works well! Bob Horne, 1989 N26C #249, ENCORE, Pocasset, MA

12

Fellow Nonsuch Enthusiasts:

Jon Lewit, along with Rob Cohen and many others, has dedicated significant time to developing an alternative platform to the Google Discussion Groups. While the current system has served us well, it has limitations—such as difficulty organizing past discussions, restrictions on posting videos or large photo files, and the general fragmentation of information accumulated over the past 25+ years. The first post on Google Groups dates back to May 2009, and it’s time to consider an upgrade.

Jon is inviting you to explore this new platform during its testing phase, and I strongly encourage you to give it a try. It maintains much of the familiar functionality (including email interaction) while offering substantial improvements. If you’re not interested, no action is required at this time—we will keep you informed about any future changes.

However, we are not looking for feedback simply advocating to “leave things as they are.” This discussion group has always been a free service to both INA members and non-members. If you truly value this community, we ask that you take a few minutes to explore the new platform and share your impressions. Your insights will help shape its future.

The INA and this discussion group thrive on volunteer efforts. We need more people to step up and contribute to keep the community active and relevant. If you have skills, time, or experience that could benefit the Nonsuch community, please reach out. Without dedicated volunteers like Jon, the Board, and other enthusiasts, this resource will eventually fade away.

Your participation matters—let’s keep this community strong.

13

Richard,

Sorry if you or others mistook my message - What we are looking for is the experience and opinions of the users who have tried using this new platform. If you haven’t tried it or don’t care to, then it is not possible to provide that feedback. We’d love to hear from you once you’ve given it a test.

Thanks -

14

Sounds like you would be an excellent contributor to our fledgling experiment!

https://n26-115-233.discourse.group/latest

15

Well said, Richard Tetu. My sentiments exactly!!

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

16

Jon,
Upon reflection, I find my translation of happiness with my 40 year old boat to complacency with 40 year old(?) google groups to be flawed.
Every day sailing is different - the wind, direction, waves, sobriety…so it may be an old boat but it’s a new adventure each time out.
I find more value in the content Nonsuch owners provide than the medium which conveys it. Plus, learning a new platform is one way of keeping cobwebs out of my 74 year old brain. Therefore, I am now all in with Discourse if that’s the next migration.
Thanks for being persistent!

John Gialanella
Nonsuch 22 #8
Tourmaline
Bolles Harbor, MI

17

I’d like to thank Jon and Rob, and all others that have worked on the Discourse project. While I was a little skeptical at first, I now think Discourse is much better in a number of ways.

It’s pretty easy to setup account, get it to email you new posts, and create new posts either through your web browser or using email.

Make a coffee or grab a beer, go to the Nonsuch Discourse test site on your computer, open an account and poke around for an hour or so. You’ll quickly see its easy to use, and more useful too.

For those of you stuck on Google Groups format that is a simple chronological list of topics, then just look at the Discourse main page which is exactly the same, a chronological list of topics.

For those of you who are a little more adventurous, then dig a little deeper and explore some of the other features. Click around the pages, don’t worry… it’s not like you’re going to break something.

I’m 70 years old, if I can figure it out, I’m sure you can to!

Cheers,
Don
‘87 NS30U Breezin’
Vancouver BC

18

Don,
You ( and INA ) are welcome. I consider the time to assess the benefits and risks of innovation well spent. This project is in many ways similar to my work with Vassar College’s Lifelong learning program when COVID required us to shift from in-person learning to remote learning. Believe it or not, Vassar LLI’s demographic is older and more cantankerous than INA’s membership.

Faced with a “do it or die” … we did it.

Now nearly 10 semesters later, I volunteer to recruit and train a volunteer team that manages the remote learning portion of Vassar LLI’s program. Both remote and in-person learning are thriving. Vassar LLI has expanded because it was previously constrained by the physical space that Vassar College was willing to allocate to LLI.

Some lessons I learned from Vassar’s LLI program :

  1. Moving to remote learning was not as difficult as it seemed when COVID shut us down. Our members ( many in their 70’s and 80’s ) demonstrated more resilience than I had expected. The COVID challenge united our team. If we had not been a united team we would have failed to make the transition.

  2. Post COVID we discovered not all members wanted to give up remote learning. Some feared the having both would DILUTE our program and it’s camaraderie. We were mistaken, having both has expanded our reach and allowed us to remain better prepared to leverage future technical opportunities.

  3. Focus on identifying and overcoming challenges and don’t implement change until you have a plan for supporting it.

  4. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT. Listen to members, they are members because they care about the organization. They will support change if they understand how the organization will benefit from it.

  5. Value all members, especially loyal volunteers.
    How might these lessons help INA :

  6. Accept that some members have reservations and talk to them to understand their perspective. Often they are aware of organizational realities that will present challenges to change ( especially if they are currently active volunteers).

  7. It is always best to avoid situations where folks are talking at each other. Debates rarely result in progress forward open and honest conversations frequently yielded innovation and consensus. Open and honest conversations are rare on both Google and Discourse. Encourage leaders to use personalized communication venues like phone, zoom, and in-person when possible.

  8. Focus on your doers ( the folks that keep the machine humming ). Consumers will always ask for more, but consumers rarely become doers to achieve the changes they ask for.

  9. Keep everyone focused on the prize. INA represents so much more than the sum of its pieces, and at the end of the day, the platform(s) we use have very little impact on the overall value INA offers members. It’s the people not the platforms that bring value.

  10. INA is lucky we don’t face a hard deadline, we can take our time to make a smooth transition without alienating any members or volunteers.
    Personally I hear a call to slow down and listen to the folks with reservations and try to figure out a way for them to feel more positive about the proposed change. The fact that we’ve achieved a critical mass of Discourse participants means the process can begin to finalize details about how it might operate for the next decade or so and serve INA as well as Google has served us.

I’m not bothered by a period of overlap, and think it could be healthy if it it conveys a respect for everyone’s position.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

19

So, as I respond to this post Google says the post has been viewed 122 times and 12 of us have now chipped in our two cents worth, with sentiment running in 3 directions - yes, no, and essentially no opinion.

I don’t mean to suggest that this represents anything other than what is right in front of us. But I would like to suggest that I can’t evaluate the idea of ‘dilution’ without a better sense of what regular participation in GG represents compared with the number of INA members who are receiving digests or dropping in to view conversation. Do the GG adminstrators or moderators have any data that could help in a better assessment of what’s at risk if change is endorsed?

I’m not endorsing change for the sake of change, but I have been following and poking around in the Discourse to feel it is no worse than GG and in fact appears to offer features that would be a remarkable improvement over GG. I cannot comment on Facebook as I donot and will not have a Facebook account.

Thank you Jon, Rob, and Bob for helping us take a look at Discourse.

Mike Massagli
NS22 #4, Piccola
lying Nantasket MA

20

Mike and others,
I guess I’d either be a “no opinion” or a “no” in the taxonomy of options you’ve offered. I accept the inevitability of change and reiterate that my opinion has nothing to do with technology.

To me, how we change matters. Reassuring folks that are attached to Google that they can continue to use Google as long as they want, would demonstrate appreciation for their role in setting up and supporting the Google Group for the past decade. Volunteer organizations are… voluntary. We cannot and should not force volunteers to change, and in reality we don’t have to succeed at INA’s goal.

I doubt continuing to use Google would materially impact our ability to figure out how to provision and build a support team for Discourse. Knowing that volunteer power is our limiting resource and that folks advocating for Google won’t volunteer for Discourse, going slow and careful is INA’s best option.

Next is the issue of dilution. Maybe historical data can be used to approximate the risk of dilution?

My impression is that the quantity and quality of the INA discussions on Google has been steadily increasing over the past few years. Would you agree ? This is actually bucking the trend of other sailing groups, and certainly the trend at my club. The most consistent and active fleet at CPYC (my club) is Atlantic’s which are even more improbable as a popular boat these days than Nonsuch boats. Maybe historically significant boats are the new old thing ?

The Facebook INA group doesn’t seem to have diluted our Google audience in any significant way, and on occasion I see participants referring participants to the other group because they know individuals with specific knowledge hang out on the other group. The discussion on FB isn’t my cup of tea so I participate in the Google Group , but some seem to prefer FB. Is there any point to asking them to change ?

I think we’d see the similar dynamics with Discourse. Overtime, experts, volunteers, and participants will migrate to the platform they are most comfortable with, and if we stay respectful and positive INA’s depth and breadth will likely continue to grow. We ought to continue to measure INA’s success by members ( folks who contribute dues ) and volunteers ( folks who provide leadership and support for the organization ).

Supporting two discussion groups will require more volunteers, but it seems unlikely that many Google volunteers will move to Discourse… if they do move to Discourse, we can quietly retire Google or ask Google supporters to volunteer to administer it. At the moment it looks like we’ll end up with three healthy discussion groups ( Google, Facebook, Discourse ) and a future filled with possibilities.

I wonder if dilution is a risk, or a certainty as a group grows ? About 30% of the chatter in Google represents distraction for me but is interesting to others. I will eventually gravitate to smaller groups of individuals whose interests are more aligned with mine. Would smaller more focused groups of Nonsuch owners be viewed as good or bad ? I guess that would depend on the total number of participants and their enthusiasm.

In the far future( next few years), I see the possibility of supporting multiple sub-groups all on Discourse if we are patient about letting folks choose to move at their own speed and deliberate about setting up new spaces for collaboration.

Personally, I’d love to take a much deeper dive into the subtlety of the Nonsuch rig. Last season, I felt there was a lot of unrealized performance available while sailing Soave, I’d love to be the guy to figure out how sail Soave at full potential. For this I’ll need help from folks with some specialized insights and time to learn from them. None of our current groups would be a good place for such a detailed discussion.

I’m also excited about the formation of a Western Long Island Sound Nonsuch Association this season and look forward to more frequent in-person activities and partnering with the Eastern Long Island Sound Nonsuch Association for bigger events. In Westport I’m pretty close to the mid-point between the two regions and not worried about one group diluting the other because we will both be supporting the INA.

Lunch is over time to get back to work.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT