About that Discourse site thing….

I’m afraid I’ve been lured to the Discourse site and mostly away from this group.
Why? You ask…
I like that I can edit a post after posting.
Pictures are easier to work with
I found it more user friendly once I gave it a fair try.

….but the big reason to consider at least monitoring it even if you don’t post is that you will get all the answers to the posted questions.
Currently everything that is posted here shows up there but not vice versa. If someone comes up with a particularly good answer but posts it on Discourse it won’t show up here.
If on the other hand it was posted here you would find it there as well.
If you are interested in hearing all the answers, join the Discourse site. You just might like it.

Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.

Yeah, everything he said. It’s setup so that everything posted here in the Google group also goes to the Discord group, but not vice-versa. So if you are only on this Google group you are missing stuff as Paul said. Plus I only seem to receive about half of the messages posted to the Google Group and it keeps getting worse. It’s ironic, but the only way for me to see all of the Google group messages is through the Discord group. Weird, but true.

Plus, you can put your boat/location info in your profile and it will appear on every posting without having to remember to add it to each email.

– You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups “INA Nonsuch Discussion Group” group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to . To view this discussion visit .

And those that post on Discourse only don’t get the benefits and input from those of us that are on the discussion site. Some of us with well over 20 years of Nonsuch experience. As I said originally, it will water down the discussion site which worked quite well.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

A great reason to monitor both until a solution presents itself Joe.

I only have time for one

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

Joe
Change is inevitable. Go with the flow you won’t regret it I promise.
You seem to be the last really important voice opposed. Why not give it a try. It’s not difficult.
With all due respect.

Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT

Except that it hasn’t worked well for me. Without the Discourse group I would see only a scattering of the Google groups postings. And the thing with Discourse is that you can be in email-only mode just like you are on the Google group. (Look at the bottom section of this message.) A few minutes to sign up and set it up and it’s pretty much the same experience only with different headers and stuff. You might recall that I was skeptical at first, but I tried it and now I don’t want to turn back from a better thing. The main thing it is missing is you and some of the other older members.

It’s great that INA has an active following on three platforms… Discourse, Facebook, and Google Groups.

I personally prefer Google Groups, as they say, different strokes for different folks.

I’ve been getting more person-2-person correspondence ( email and texts) with other Nonsuch owners, and these conversations have been especially rewarding.

I think the forums are handy for meeting new people, and it’s good to have old-timers in each of the groups to welcome new owners. The forums are both interesting and helpful, but they don’t even come close to meeting other owners in person and sailing on each-other’s Nonsuch boats.

The real fun in on the water !

Smooth Sailing,

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

Another benefit of the Discourse site is when initially creating your account, you can include your boat’s name, model, and location, so that when you post a message this info is automatically included.

Think of the time Joe would save by not having to repeatedly telling newcomers to include this info after their first post.

Worth a try.

Regards,
Don

Ron,

I actually don’t think that it’s great that we are on three platforms when two of them are discussion forums - one more capable and the other with more members. However, since it takes time to migrate - so be it. And if messaging individual members is of interest, or messaging within small groups might be of some benefit, then the capabilities of Discourse (click on a user, then click on their envelope) is a clear benefit.

IMHO if someone only has time for one forum, isn’t it better to use the one that has the complete topic threads? Just sayin’…

If you can use Facebook, then you can use the Discourse site. If you choose to only use email, then you can set up a Discourse account to use email (you miss the rest, but you get the full discussion threads).

Some stats -
Discourse has 115 user accounts. It also has postings, via the Google Mirror, from about 70 other people. Our Google Group has almost 1,000 users, but as you can see the vast majority are listeners and don’t post. The Google Mirror has been active for 5 months. The Discourse site can get anywhere from 150 - 500 page views on any given day - yesterday’s number was 447, and on that day about 35% were from anonymous users (people without an account). Google still gets more original postings because that’s where the larger population is. Discourse gets one or two new signups every few days. Sigh… The only way to move to a new platform is if people actually move…

The Google Discussion Group will be around with no improvements or changes until Google decides that it’s done trying to migrate people from Google Groups to Google Workspace and announces its end of life. We already have in place a better alternative.

If anyone would like help setting up their Discourse account, please email me off list
jonlewit@gmail.com

If anyone would like to finally get their Discourse account, use this link -

https://nonsuch.discourse.group/invites/yMnFhrNMyb

Fair winds
Jon
N26C #115 Inua - Kingston, NY - on the scenic Hudson River

1 Like

It’s Rob… not Ron.

Nobody seems concerned that the 1100 lurkers aren’t seeing Discourse content. When we’re done cherry picking active users from Google, turn off the mirror and let Google be Google and Discourse be Discourse.

The Discourse users are happy with a universe 115 users they can continue to cultivate it it will grow over time. Interestingly all three groups are still growing and seem to attract different audiences.

I’m not convinced continuing to coax folks to a single platform is good for the overall community. Let folks choose where they want participate.

I can be a happy Nonsuch owner in any discussion group ( even a FB Group), especially if folks managing the other platforms are trying to manage me.

Let’s focus on the boat and the sport of sailing. Let each member enjoy it in their own way.

Smooth Sailing…

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

Rob, (not Ron)

“Nobody seems concerned that the 1100 lurkers aren’t seeing Discourse content.” My continued efforts to attract the remaining current Google users is a direct evidence that I am concerned that we bring over all of the current members of this list, The fact that we have a significant number of non-registered users looking at the Discourse site is direct evidence that no one who has interest and can click a mouse is being left behind. If someone is really just a lurker, then they are all set. But without an account you cannot post or message anyone, the system can’t tell you what is new since your last visit, you can’t get emails of each new posting or a daily digest of new topics, etc. Google force feeds you emails, but without any action, Discourse does not do anything.

No one has mentioned turning off the Google Mirror category. I believe in discussion terms, that’s called the “straw man fallacy”. The decision as to where things go from here concerning Google and Discourse after the one year trial rests with the INA Board. For a group like ours, I happen to believe that one forum platform is better than two - you don’t - so it goes…

You have an active Discourse account, so I assume that you believe that it has some value for you. The Nonsuchers who started this thread clearly believe that it has value and were encouraging others to get an account. It’s the old Alka Seltzer commercial - “Try it, you’ll like it”.

And by now this conversation has passed the boring point, so this will be my last posting on this thread…

Be well, fair winds, and remember, “it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken”,
Jon

N26C #115 - resting peacefully in its slip off the Hudson River - quietly waiting for me to figure out the best way to integrate SeaTalk and SeaTalkng across a variety of new and new to me electronics…

1 Like

Perchance, the 35% of anonymous views on Discourse were people who looked and decided Discourse was not for them, that they were more comfortable with what we currently have.

lloyd herman, Google User Only
Rendezvous, 30U
Port Washington, NY

It just seems sad that Joe Valinoti’s opinion simply gets dismissed or belittled. He has been so much help to me over the year, and I am certain many others feel that way.. And I really do not like the “change is inevitable “ line; inevitable does not equate to great. It is dismissive, basically “if you don’t like it, lump it.” I was a major change agent at work for 38 years, but I did everything I could to acknowledge my elders and those who had a different point of view. I am old enough to try to lose some of my arrogance; I feel most people demonstrate more confidence than competence in life. Certainly, more kindness and respect would be helpful. This forum is no longer what it was; I guess “change is inevitable?”

Richard… I share your concern, and I don’t think we are alone. I hope our INA board hears these concerns.

Change may be inevitable, but we ought to preserve the camaraderie that has been the cornerstone of the Nonsuch community.

Since we purchased Soave in 2023, we’ve enjoyed the generosity, kindness, and respect of the Nonsuch community.

I’d like to preserve these values in all of our forums and events.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT

This all started with good intentions. It’s really a shame if it results in anyone feeling they’re being dragged into something against their will.

As a Discourse fan, I wish any of you feeling that way would instead consider the following…

Discourse, for those who don’t want a hassle, is very easy to set-up to operate pretty much just like the Google Discussion Group. Admittedly, if you aren’t interested in taking advantage of its additional features, that does raise the, “So what’s in it for me?” and the “It ain’t broke, so why fix it?” questions.

I can certainly understand those questions. However, I hope you’ll consider another way of looking at it.

Coming over is low-cost to those who don’t want to deal with big changes. Meanwhile, it’s a huge benefit for to those of us who are trying to do things with it to help the INA.

My biggest personal example: A few years ago, about a dozen of us (representing nearly two centuries of combined Nonsuch experience) contributed to putting together the Nonsuch Buyers’ Guide, and the New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide. It was, to be honest, a lot of work for the contributors. As the organizer and editor for both, it was, to be even more honest, a hell of a lot more work for me.

I did one update to those documents since, and I’m already feeling burnt out.

Discourse gives me ways of collecting, organizing, and re-using its content that Google makes extremely difficult. If information for updates pops up because people are posting in Discourse, using it to update those publications is easy enough for me to be willing to continue. If not, not.

Here’s another example. Discourse also has features which make it much easier to pull together information into Wikis (informative articles for those of you who aren’t IT nerds). I’m currently running the INA survey and seeing requests for the INA to start posting how-to articles and location-specific information like good shops, surveyors, and insurance agents.

I can see low-effort ways to set those up and keep them up-to-date if people are posting in Discourse. Not so, in Google.

Third example. I did a quick-and-dirty analysis of the 6000+ separate threads created in the life of Google Discussion Group. I can’t give you numbers, but I can assure you that there’s a lot of threads that are really the same, and a lot that should’ve been split into different topics. Can’t fix in Google, can in Discourse.

While I was typing this, Paul Miller made a good comment about it being important that we all keep helping each other when we are able to. In that spirit, consider using Discourse as a way of helping those of us who are trying to help you by pulling information together.

If you’re largely an INA information consumer, it may not matter to you which tool you use. But, the choice you make has a big impact on whether it’s easy or hard for us would-be information producers to produce information for you.

A few statistics. INA has about 650 members. Although lots post questions, there are at most around 10-15 folks (about 2%) who reliably post answers. Of those, maybe 5 of us (about 0.75%) are putting effort into packaging that information to make it useful to INA members.

If it’s not a lot of work (and I really don’t think trying Discourse is), could you consider trying Discourse simply because it makes life easier for the small group of people who are willing to do that work?

Instead of thinking of trying Discourse as you giving something up, consider thinking of it as you giving something back to that small group of helpers who develop and maintain the services INA provides. At low cost to you, you’d be doing us a big favor.

My $0.02.

– Bob
(Who wouldn’t need to tell you that he’s with
Me Gusta, Nonsuch e26U #233, in Marina del Rey
'cuz Discourse takes care of that)

2 Likes

Well this is certainly more than I expected when I started this thread. I was just commenting that I liked the new site and giving my reasons. I didn’t realize that it was a divisive issue.
Personally I follow all three and find them all useful. Facebook is different of course, mostly social comments and pictures. I guess for now I will post answers here as I don’t know where the original poster was asking the question. I hope this will sort itself out eventually. Most important is that we all keep helping each other when we are able to.

Paul M
NS30U #21, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.

Nor did I.

Well said, Lloyd

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

For what it’s worth, I do have a Discourse account, I tried it, and did not find it to be worth the distraction and disruption the migration is causing. I know and like many of the folks who prefer Discourse. Just as I know and respect my many old friends in the Flying Scot fleet, but I’ve moved on to the Nonsuch.

Our platform discussion fits a familiar pattern, racing boat clubs are composed of fleets. There is special tension between fleets. The club board feels the club would be more “efficient” if we didn’t have as many fleets. But in reality having choices attracts more racers to the club. When the time comes to consider admitting a new fleet, the bar is high, but once admitted, fleets are allowed to hang on as long as they wish. Eventually they die a natural death and nobody has their feelings hurt.

At my club ( CPYC ) , Star’s are mostly gone, there is one still hanging on in the dry stall that travels to regattas to race. Lightnings are on life support. Aero’s are the new fleet on the block, they currently have 30 boats and race 3 days a week. Ahhh.. the circle of life…

The lesson… you don’t need to kill the old fleet… for the new fleet to succeed. Let each stand or fall on their own merit.

I agree that folks willing to share knowledge and experience should be free to share it using whatever tools they prefer. I respect the folks who prefer Discourse or Facebook.

I am offended by the implication that if I tried Discourse I would like it. I tried it and was not impressed. It would be like telling a Nonsuch owner if they tried try a J-Boat they would like it. When I sold my Scot, I bought a J70 and gave it two seasons before selling it and buying Soave. BTW, one of the reasons I like Nonsuch is the supportive, respectful, and friendly community.

The Discourse mirror diminishes my experience because my posts on Google are mirrored to Discourse. If my fiends on Discourse reply, I don’t see their replies and I fear they think I’m ignoring them. I feel obligated to check Discourse to make sure I haven’t left anyone hanging. Once we discontinue the Mirror the problem goes away… because the scope of discussion will be defined by the platform. I know how to use all three platforms so if I want to pop in on the Discourse crowd I can.

I would NOT attempt to force everyone to use a single platform. Now that we’ve jump started Discourse, I’d discontinue the mirror and let each platform be stand alone and be it’s best for the folks that use it.

The Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide and Advice for Potential Buyers are examples of some of our best quality content. Curated content is different and should not be confused with open discussion content. The attempts to publish curated content on Discourse is a work in progress, and when ready I think it would be worth a second look as a platform for folks who wish to produce high quality curated content for the Nonsuch community.

Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT