Eh. Rob, your comments convinced me to give up on this.
I’m gonna get back to using Discourse and working to produce stuff for INA. I’ll leave Google to you critics.
I can’t help observing the similarity between the comments on this thread, and the comments in a circa 2010 Google Discussion Group thread of questions and complaints about the changeover from AOL.
The AOL List Serve was set up in the late 90’s so all Nonsuch owners and interested parties could collaborate and interact on owning a Nonsuch. Aol eventually discontinued the List Server business and we migrated to Google Groups as it was the only one with out any advertising and offered pretty much everything we required. The migrating was simple the active AOL users who were members of the INA were copied into Google . Non members who were active were sent emails with a link to join the Goggle Group. It was pretty seamless. That was 20 odd years ago.
Going forward:
The idea of having two discussion groups makes no sense and certainly does not see the objective of have a common place for all of use to meet and discuss all things Nonsuch . Facebook is a poor choice, great for pictures and announcements but not private and full of ads and enough folks are not Facebook users to make universal adoption unrealistic.
There are advantages and disadvantages with both. If the decision is to stay then the trial with Discourse should end. If the decision is to migrate to Discourse then it should be as seamless as the AOL to Google was.
But I think the time has come to make a decision and move on.
Keeping both is really not an option.
And on a more interesting note some of us are working on an integration of a new all called “Virtual Beer” that we can add to any discussion because cold beer is what is really needed in these discussions. Stay tuned
You may be right on the fact that a decision needs to be made on “pick up on one and let the other one go” if I may steal a line from a song I don’t remember the name of. There seems to be some strong opinions being expressed currently.
I just hope you get that Virtual Beer app launched in time to prevent a split.
I like the ease of Discourse but I will go wherever the Nonsuch Forum lands. Either now or in the future.
We all know the Google Group has been moderated and maintained for the last couple decades by some loyal hardworking volunteers. Late in 2024 some folks asked the question should we begin looking for a “better” tool to use for collaboration. I participated in the early search.
The search team converged on Discourse as a possible solution. We moved quickly from searching to evaluating.
During the evaluation, it became apparent to me that some of the longtime Google Groups users and volunteers were not in favor of moving to Discourse.
For me this was a re flag.
I felt uncomfortable rolling over the Google Groups volunteers and voiced the opinion that Discourse does not offer enough added value to justify removing the Google Groups volunteers from a job they’ve been doing for the many years.
Something I didn’t expect… I’ve been visiting all three groups ( Discourse, Google, Facebook ) and have observed happy collaborative owners in all three. Lately I’ve been thinking the interests of INA are best served by allowing owners to choose how and where they want to interact. Each group has it’s own tone and character and it is easy enough to visit other groups and modern search tools make it easy to find stuff.
I’m not convinced that forcing all discussion to take place on one platform is in the best interest of INA or it’s members. Especially if it results in members who feel under appreciated for their many years of service.
Surely there is a more tactful way to serve the interests of INA and it’s members.
Seeing the way existing volunteers are treated gives me second thoughts about how willing I will be to volunteer in the future. This is exactly the opposite impression I’d think the INA wants to project to it’s membership.
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
I have not seen any disparaging remarks against the members of the Google group, nor do I feel any, myself. I don’t know where you get that. I have the highest respect for this group have received much help here, and would really love to be able to participate in it. Sadly, that isn’t working out very well because I miss at least half of the messages from the Google group and usually don’t even know a thread is happening until I see a reply (to a reply to a reply…) Like this one. Or see it on the Discourse mirror.
The only thing I see from Discourse testers is positive feedback, explanations and offers of help setting up, and some encouraging of others to try it out. Not forcing or railroading, just asking. It is not possible to make an informed decision on something like this without trying it out. If someone tries it out and finds it to be not worthwhile, then that’s fine. Call me naive, but I just don’t see how you can decide without trying it first.
The board allowed a year to test this. I think it’s premature to force the issue - either way - right now. Let’s let the test run.
And I think we should consider hanging on to all three platforms as a reasonable alternative because of the rumors that Google may be ending their Groups service. It would leave us with a backup already in place. And in the meantime I could continue to see what I’m missing in the Google group through the mirror on Discourse.
I help admin the Google Group and it’s embarrassing little work. Approve the odd member request. And since there are several folks are doing this job someone is usually is faster on the draw than I am LOL. .
Doesn’t’ t matter to me what we use.
But I do feel that the INA should endorse and commit to supporting one discussion tool, not 2. If folks want to engage in other venues so be it. That has never been an issue and I’m sure members are on Sailing Anarchy , Cruising and other venues…
I don’t get a lot of time to read messages, and generally do so in between tasks at work. I rarely am on email or discourse at home, having way too many other things to do.
My corporate network makes discourse access spotty and unreliable. I can’t seem to post. I frequently can’t get the domain to resolve for days at a time. This is a deliberate network decision on my end and not indicative of issues with the hoster.
I do read just about every googlegroup message, sometimes weeks later, like now. I can’t reliably read discourse messages.
The end result is that a wholesale move to discourse means I’ll pretty much lose access.
Sometimes it’s less about choice and more about access.
Brian
SV Serenity
Nonsuch Nereus #003
Pax River, MD
You can switch your Discourse email preference to “mailing list” mode and get an email of every posting (Google and Discourse). If access to the site is a problem, I can do that for you.
I use the mailing list mode and it works similarly to the Google Groups email list mode. You might want to try it. The difference for me is that I get all Discourse messages, including those from the Google Group via the mirror. I do not get all of the Google Group messages directly, as was the case with the first message in this thread. So we are like bipolar Brians!
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Not to restart the debate, but just to point out a feature -
If you have never looked at Discourse, take a look at Jeff’s recent question about sail covers and scroll to the bottom. You will see that Discourse automatically matched that topic to previous discussions. It always does this, so it is very easy to read previous related postings.
This will become increasingly useful as this feature gets “smarter” at matching and the archive of past postings grows.
I’d like to offer a bit more detail to illustrate Jon’s “neat feature” point.
Here on the Google Discussion Group, when you start a new topic like “Conventional Sail Cover”, the only thing Google does for anyone is to announce that new topic exists and people can see the responses.
On Discourse, you get that, too, but Discourse also lets you know that five other topics might be interesting to also look at:
Spinnakers, more thoughts?
Don’t care? No harm that the information’s there. Do care? Well, then, it’s kinda nice.
Similarly, when you go to create a new topic, Google’s attitude is, “sure, fine, go ahead”. Discourse, as you enter you new topic name, will try to let you know if there’s already topics that might be related, giving you a chance to decide whether you want to start a new thread or join an ongoing conversation.
For example, if I were to type in, “Replacement sail cover”, Discourse would pop up with:
Your topic is similar to…
Doyle Stack Pack or Mack Pack Google MirrorReplacement for rubstake on by 30U Google Mirror
hybride stackpack sailcover Google Mirror
Don’t care? Easy to ignore. Want to make sure you don’t ask a question already answered? Don’t want other contributors to think you’re ignoring things they’ve already said? Well, then, it’s kind of nice.
I like how it’s referred to as “that Discourse site thing”! Anyway how can I configure to see recent posts first rather than having to scroll down to here?
Roger,
I’m not seeing what you are. When I click on a topic on the home page, I go to the most recent post (at the bottom), or if a few are unread, then to the first unread post.
When you navigate to a topic, like via a search, it takes you to the top (oldest) post = the starting point.
There is no way to change the sort of the postings within a topic.
