Electric Nonsuches

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
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G’morning -

I do not own an electric powered Nonsuch. I think that re-powering a Nonsuch electrically, in many cases, is a wonderful idea. I know of 4 such vessels. The combined knowledge of the skippers of these vessels would fill a library.

Two of these boats are in Toronto. One belongs to Jorgen Moller (who re-powered quite a while ago) and the other is captained by Brian Monrad. I am certain that Jorgen did an impressive and exacting job on his boat when he changed his propulsion over from diesel. I believe that he shepherded his fellow RCYC member, Brian Monrad, through this adventure. I HAVE, however, seen the innards of Brian’s boat, after his installation. I would rather have knee surgery in the engine compartment of Brian’s boat than in a hospital O/R (and we have good ones, here, in Toronto). It is one of the most impressive engineering solutions that I have ever had the good fortune to examine. Amazing, really.

I think that Captain Mike (who sails Bianka and is a regular contributor to this forum) was the very first to do this and has an excellent blog. I am certain that he, too, has a superb installation.

Ehrich Rose (in Florida, I think) recently re-did his boat, beautifully, I am told, but got a lightning strike. Still, he learned (and knows) a lot.

Those are the four guys that I know of. They are the ones to get a hold of. I do know that they (understandably) LOVE to spread the gospel of electric propulsion.

In my case, day sailing my N22 O/B “MOUSTACHES” on Lake Ontario, if I could have afforded a Torqueedo outboard AND battery (the killer), I’d have gone to the “other” side in a flash. These toys are mighty expensive in Canada, the land of Monopoly money.

I believe that the four skippers mentioned are all INA members and their contact info can be accessed in the book.

Ernie A. in Toronto

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Ernie

When my Westerbeke diesel went from a perfectly good engine to dead within six hours. I felt it had to be a simple problem. A whole season on the mooring and almost a thousand dollars later I gave up on it. I spent a lot of time hunched over that iron beast and also paid others to scratch their heads. Turns out a broke engine head gasket sprayed water onto one of the cylinders and cracked it. Though I did not know it at the time. I thought there had to be a better way and began to explore the electric option. It was a leap of faith back in 2008 but, I’m so glad I did and glad others have also done the conversion on their Nonsuches. I have to keep reminding myself to appreciate how much less maintenance there is and how cleaner the boat is. The posts here on the INA group about various engine problems like leaks, transmission problems etc… keep reminding me of things I no longer have to worry about. Especially now as I am about to have BIANKA pulled for the winter. I don’t have to deal with the end of season oil change and winterizing of the engine anymore. Going electric over a decade ago has made my Nonsuch experience even better.

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I understand how electric propulsion could be a very attractive option for day sailing. But I’m less sure how well it works for cruising. We like to go out for a week on the bay each summer and anchor out most nights. No place to plug in and there seems to be limited room for solar panels on a Nonsuch. Yes, I know it’s a sailboat but some days here there’s no wind and you have to motor. How do electric Nonsuches handle these situations? I think Mike carries a generator. That seems to trade carrying diesel for carrying gasoline. If/when my diesel ever dies I’d love to consider electric but not if it’s going to limit my cruising. So I hope I’m wrong but that’s what I’m trying to understand.

Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville MD

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I like to cruise the 1000 islands and parts east. The passage making from Whitby to the 1000 islands is a boring two to three days, especially if the wind is on the nose as it usually is.
I have a four cylinder Westerbeke 33. If I motor sail I can do it overnight. More time to spend in one of the best cruising areas in the Great Lakes .

Kudos to the electric guys but it wouldn’t work for me…

Cheers

Brian McCuaig. NS30u
Whitby, Ontario

“Having a nonsuch is reason for being more cheerful than most."

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I have read so many posts from so many Nonsuchers on this subject. I do know that it works for some and does not work for others. It totally depends on what kind of voyaging you do.

But for those whom it does work for, apparently it REALLY works.

Ernie A. in Toronto

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I second Ernie.

I haven’t gone electric, but am very interested in the possibility. Also, given the name that came with my boat, I’m morally obligated to consider it.

I hope we can use this thread for those who’re knowledgeable on the topic to share information with folks like me.

I have less range anxiety than those who’ve concluded that it won’t work for them, but more than those who just need to get out of the dock.

In my case, I’ve concluded that I’ll commit if/when I find an affordable installation that’ll give 50 miles of range at 5 knots, support limited solar and regenerative charging, and recharge overnight from shorepower. Affordable means I can do it for same or less than a diesel repower.

– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C, #143

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Jim

I still can cruise as I did before when the boat had the Westerbeke diesel. Yes, I did buy a very reliable Honda 2000 generator as part of three legged stool for charging at anchor or mooring. The others being wind and solar. Yes, I still need to carry gas as most boats already do for their dingy outboards. I did eliminate carrying any diesel and other fluids like antifreeze. I actually use the generator much less than I thought I would. It’s also very efficient and useful for other uses besides charging the propulsion battery bank. It also charges the 12 volt house bank and powers any 120 volt tools and laptops at the same time. Even if you have a diesel engine I think it’s a great backup to have onboard to charge things up. I could also use the generator to operate in a hybrid mode should the wind die for an extended period of time. It will move the boat along at 3 knots until the gas runs out. Which is about four hours with the one gallon tank. I’ve had to do this only once in over ten years of having EP. It worked fine for the 40 miles that trip took. The limitation with speed is the 15 amp output of the original AGM charger.

Recently I took advantage of one of the benefits of an EP installation. Which is the ability to upgrade the system easily. I purchased a new 3400 watt generator the resides nicely and securely right behind the mast. It has allowed me to power a 48 volt power supply that puts out 32 amps and allows a boat speed of around 4.5 knots without using any battery amps. In addition it has remote start and I can turn it on and off from the cockpit. Though as I said it would only be needed in an extended windless day. Though I expect it will decrease bulk charging time too.

You also can do things with an EP system you can’t with a diesel. Besides regen charging the battery bank via the prop there were light wind days where I use to debate whether should I fire up the diesel. With EP you can just crank the control just a tiny bit to eliminate any prop drag and give you a nice bump up in speed and still enjoy the sail without the noise and vibration of the diesel. You can also control how fast you want to go and still enjoy a quiet sail while waiting for the wind to pick up.,

I would not pull out a perfectly operating diesel just to do the conversion but, if the diesel dies one might want to consider it.

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Hi Mike,
I hope my diesel lasts a long time. But it’s good to know there are alternatives if it dies. I can see EP has a lot of advantages and you’ve figured out how to make cruising work for you. I’m not sure what I’d think about 3 knots as a top speed, 4.5 sounds better.

Many thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful and detailed response.

Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville MD

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Jim
Understand that the three knots limitation was using a 900 watt charger only The Honda can put out 1600 watts continuous. So I could have used a bigger power supply. Though the 1500 watt power supply would trip the Honda breaker because of the start up current surge. So I upgraded the generator to handle that. Also remember that the three knots was without using any battery power. One could also add to the boat speed by tapping into the battery bank if you wanted.
BTW I still carry the Honda onboard since it does take up much room and its always good that have a backup. IMO

Hope everyone’s diesel continues to operate but, if it doesn’t it’s nice to have an alternative choice for auxiliary propulsion. I’m certainly glad I made the move.

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Hi Mike, and everybody;

What’s not discussed here is what the end user (i.e. you) wants to do with your boat.

Back of the envelope calculations indicate that (by weight) Diesel has close to 200x the amount of energy. One can do the calcs by volume, if you want, but the results will be fairly similar. If my pre-coffee calculations, replacing our diesel tank in our NS26C would take over 25,000 pounds of batteries. Not going to fit!

What do you want to do with your boat? What conditions are you using your engine in? (my answers below)

I note with pleasure and respect that Mike’s made a hybrid-vehicle type of propulsion; gas Honda generator when you need more oomph, but pure electric when you don’t. What a flexible arrangement that is.

Around where we sail, and want to sail, there’s sometimes strong winds and in places strong, continuous currents or long way motoring (ICW, we hope). If my wife and I were named Lin and Larry Pardey, we’d not be worried, but we are most certainly not, so in my view the new diesel we put in is both an enabler and a safety device.

But, please, keep these discussions going; I enjoy reading the progressive ideas from the electric side. It helps spread knowledge about, which is a good thing, and you never know, plans change as one goes through life.

John Stewart
NS26C 046
winter covered as of yesterday :frowning:
lying Bath ON.

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They say every boat is a compromise…the same can be said for your motor. I repowered Kahuna with an electric motor because for me the negatives of the diesel engine were worse than the negatives of the electric motor. Likewise, the positives of the diesel motor did not out weigh the positives of the electric motor. But all of those positives and negatives are as subjective to the sailor as beauty is to the poet.

For me. I hate…i mean i really hate diesel motors. I hate changing the oil, checking oil levels. Checking coolant, oil pumps, fuel filters, water pumps, docking at fuel docks, and carrying tools i dont even know how to use.

I am sure that paragraph is an insult to all the professional diesel mechanics, and wanna be diesel mechanics. Two groups I highly respect. But will die happily if I never ever join.

The electric motor allows me to follow my passion without having to involve me with my loathing. The electric motor allows me to daysail in my local waters. It allowed me to motor 180 miles on ICW, and i have all the confidence that my electric motor will allow me to travel to and tour the Bahamas.

But…nothing in the world is free. To avoid what i hate. And achieve what I love. I must be willing to motor at 4-5 kts instead of 6 kts. I must be willing to motor a maximum of 50 miles per day. For me that is a small price to pay, and all the justification I needed to go electric.

But, since doing the conversion, I have now learned of all the added benefits of an all electric boat. No propane. Battery powered air conditioning, no fluids on boat. No diesel smell on boat. No motor spare parts, or motor specific tools.

So far.. my electric engine has not prevented me from doing anything I wanted to do with my boat, but has opened up so many more possibilities, and eliminated my number one hate about owning a sailboat.

For my eyes, and electric motor is a very beautiful upgrade.

Like mike I carry a small suitcase generator and 1-5 gallons of fuel depending on how many days I plan to be out. I also carry an E-Propulsion electric outboard for the dinghy.

Ehrich Rose

SV Kahuna

1987 NS 30U #391

Hernando Beach Florida

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Hi Erich;

I actually agree with you - I’m not a fan of diesel engines.

I hoped my pre-coffee email was worded such as not to be read as a criticism by any faction. It seems like I failed. I apologise for that.

Having done an oil change in the last few days, and hating the diesel noise and smell and all the headaches associated with it, and the winterizing… at least with a new one, it’ll hopefully give years of service with minimal maintenance headaches.

Where I am, the ICW to Bahamas route is 1100 nm as the crow flies, likely a lot further with all the ins and outs of the rivers and canals before we get to the ICW itself. And the river currents in the spring… two local club boats went downstream, and if I remember correctly from their blog currents of 6 knots in places were the norm. There’s always a current (St. Lawrence River) to battle, no matter when in the sailing season one goes. Here’s a link from a Hunter 34(?) taken from the spring of 2019, 12.3 knots, SOG, while motoring:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMOirRMZax4kcMFhIymA8FsUcj8e4CgrRWFQ01xlDUz3HAD-3AmFpZRThAMJMHUNg/photo/AF1QipMx06c7J5aqNHecgryy_7CAVHmjflPu6N5bf3FG?key=NENJY2Y2U0Zwd3lDcFJRQkt5M1hVUzRJSS1sYjBR

(their blog is at https://ramble-on-2019.blogspot.com/ for anyone stuck at home as the snow is flying)

Now, my wife and I hope to make it around Lake Ontario next summer if we can visit the US side, or visit Thor up at the other end of the Trent Severn canal in Little Current/Georgian Bay, and I’d love to not have to spend another 6 month-long winter (it snowed here today) by heading south in our little NS26 some winter sooner than later…

Best Regards;

John A. Stewart
NS26C 046
winterized and covered in Bath ON.

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Electric propulsion has much to admire. Railway locomotives have been electric for decades, they just use diesel to provide the power vs batteries. So really we are talking battery technology not electric motor technology.

But any new technology changes how things are done and that needs to be well understood.

I have an electric car. Best car I have even owned by a country mile. . But, I need to think differently, drive differently and plan trips differently. And there in lies the joy in life, n’est pas?

I hope to sail Mariners Cat long enough to see a battery powered electric engine, but for now the way we sail her precludes that idea. For now.

Thor

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Thor
Not just railway locomotives but, many boats like Tugs and ferries too. In fact one evening as I sat in the BIANKA’s cockpit despairing over the lack of progress on the dead Westerbeke. I heard the whistle of the nearby Port Jefferson ferry. I remembered talking to deckhand on the boat years ago. I asked him what powered the ferry. He said “diesel electric”. That was an aha moment that started me down the road looking for an Electric Propulsion solution to replace the diesel.