Garmin Electronics

Willi - OpenCPN, with the CHS charts (raster) loaded, puts you in the canal. At least according to the GPS coords as shown bottom of your picture.

The screen shot here is “north up”, while I think yours is not.

Charts, charts, charts. Garbage in, Garbage out. My Standard Horizon oldie chartplotter has lots of issues, such as NO detail in the Picton Ontario harbour.

I’m going through the “get a good chart-plotter”, but it’s really confusing as to what to choose.

John A. Stewart
NS26C 046, Ottawa ON.

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Hi Julian,

A couple of years ago I switched over to an iPad to replace my very old Garmin (2004). Initially, the Apple store person told me that I could just buy the Wifi version that it had GPS in it… well, that wasn’t correct. The Wifi only version has a ‘mock-gps’ but not an accurate one. If too far from shore it would not tell me where I was, if tethered to my phone, it would tell me I was at the closest cell-tower on land… not helpful… Struggled for two weeks from Jersey City to Martha’s Vineyard and back. I had installed Navionics. Luckily I had a trial version of the Navionics on my phone and had to use that to navigate (the gps in the phone worked perfectly). Upon returning home I went back to Apple, explained the issue, and they allowed me to upgrade to the ‘Cellular’ iPad for the cost difference, and they were very apologetic.

The iPad ‘Cellular’ version works great without any sim card/cellular connection (so no cell plan cost). Just the proper GPS, with Navionics. Spent 3+ weeks on a trip to Nantucket this summer and it worked flawlessly. I transfer it to a waterproof case each time I arrive at my boat. I found a mount for it that attached to the binnacle, and I ran a long USB power-cord thru the binnacle under the cockpit floor, and over to a 12v outlet that is next to my fuel gauge and bilge blower switch - so the iPad is plugged into the 12v the entire time we are navigating.
Only once that I can remember did it say it was too hot - an unusually hot day, and I had opened up (closed?) the bimini so the sun was directly on the helm. I find the screen to sufficiently bright even on the sunniest of days.

And, the iPad serves other functions on the boat as well… can control my music, we stream movies/tv if we want, and all of it’s other functionalities which ‘fixed’ dedicated Garmin (or other brand) navigation/chartplotter can’t. And it costs about a third of a new Garmin…

I am very happy I made the switch… it may not be for everyone… but it has served me well.

Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30U 430
Jersey City, NJ

Steve,
If you can fit a 9" MFD, I’d recommend it. Three years ago I did a complete electronics upgrade. I put in a B&G 7" Zeus2 and after a few cruises would be happier with more real estate. Mine is on the port cockpit bulkhead and I think the 9" would fit. I didn’t go with placing at the wheel for simplicity/exposure reasons. As for Broadband radar (Simrad 3G) power consumption, it’s very low- “Operating: 18W (Typ.) @ 13.8Vdc Standby: 2W (Typ.) @ 13.8Vdc ~ 150mA”. After getting caught in the Strait of Juan de Fuca shipping channel in pea soup, we really appreciate it. For wind, I tried the Maretron Ultrasonic WSO100… started giving erroneous (high) readings after two years; heard other reports of this. Think I’ll return to the old spinning cup version. Is nice to get temp and humidity out of it though. For speed, depth, and water temp (wow!) the Maretron DST100 tri-ducer fit in the old Raymarine speed sensor hole. New VHF included AIS (sharing antenna) as well as GPS, and the AIS is very useful here in busy Puget Sound- best thing is 15 minute position projection arrows on the transmitting ships. It was amazing how easily the NMEA2000 protocol made all the units work together, with no configuration whatsoever- just turned it on and everything showed up where it should.
I’m not near the boat right now, but here’s installation on my remote control model :slight_smile:

Hi Lloyd,
I took another approach, rather than filling and fairing big holes in the bulkhead (3 in my case). This was in a Niagara 35 (same vintage, builder and designer as our Nonsuches) with the 1980 vintage Datamarine instruments. Holes for the 2 new Raymarine instrument heads are somewhat smaller and I needed to cover the 3rd original hole. You can see in the attached pics that I made a cover plate from composite panel, painted to match bulkhead, fastened with 4200 plus corner bolts - and well clamped through the instrument holes while curing. Since the last photo here was taken, I added an inclinometer underneath the instruments so the extra panel area at bottom is now pleasantly occupied. I took this route as a big timesaver over filling and fairing as I had significant other tasks to do with this boat, which is now mostly complete. On the cabin side of the bulkhead there is a factory-original wooden cabinet, similar to what is on most Nonsuches.

Greg Silver
Misty Cat 26C #121
St. Peter’s, Cape Breton

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 9:09:49 p.m. UTC-4 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:

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Brian,

Thank you . Looks very clean. Any regrets about putting on bulkhead,. Are you able to read clearly from helm and any passenger blocking issues? Is yours a 26? Thanks

Steve O

Stephen P. O’Malley, Jr
McNulty & O’Malley
Attorneys At Law
85 Exchange Street, Suite 206
Lynn, MA 01901

Office 857-317-8080
Fax 339-883-3043

Steve,
No real regrets, but I’m sure most people would prefer it at the wheel. I don’t spend my sailing time with me eyes glued to the instruments and it saved me from filling holes of the old instruments. Mine’s a 26 too, so I can easily sit at the display while steering when necessary. I often sit there when it’s cold anyway. The 9” would have improved seeing the chart from the wheel, but I can see the essentials on the chart and certainly can read the instruments fine. I’m often single-handing, though my wife knows how to lean out of the way or read it herself. Overall I’ve been very happy with the improved setup.

Brian & Susan Berdan
“Blue September” 260 #007
Bainbridge Island, Washington

I have the 7” Garmin chart plotter on my N33 as seen in this picture. No need for anything larger. I have added an additional Garmin display on the cockpit starboard side bulkhead so I can check depth, speed, etc should I not be at the helm where the same info is displayed on my chart plotter.
This pic shows the now gone Data Marine displays at the right edge. They have been replaced by a Garmin GX20.

Ed Strazzini
PELICAN, N33#36
Deltaville, VA

This location error is caused by GPS accuracy, ± 25 feet… and zooming a chart drawn at say 1"=200 feet to 1"=50 feet will also induce location errors.

Thor, with all due respect:

  1. I think you’ll find GPS accuracy is much better than you stated, especially if GLOSNASS sats are added, as they are in many/all newer systems (like, within a foot or two);

  2. I used the actual lat/lon numbers shown on Willi’s screen, put it into OpenCPN, and posted an image of where OpenCPN thought it was - it shows Willi was actually mid-channel.

See you –

John A. Stewart
NS26C 046
Ottawa, ON

GPS accuracy is often changing and theoretically ± a couple of feet may be possible. But I would never in a million years rely on that degree of accuracy. I have a GPS 76, simple hand held and it indicates varying degrees of accuracy and bounces between -+ 10 to 20 feet on average.

Converting a GPS position to a plot on a map can depend on several factors. And one of the largest sources of position error is the zooming effect. I have often been sailing over land according to my Garmin, and not by 2 feet as a result of it. There are plenty of traps in electronic charting, I’ve helped pull a few boats off rocks for this very reason.

The original surveys were often done entirely by hand, using differing measures and datums. The last time I sailed up the east side of Lake Huron the "current: chart had been done by Capt Bayfield and the paper chart showed hand written depths in fathoms, that Garmin has somehow converted to feet. So many hands have touched the that data before I saw on the GPS map. Oddly enough the area of the North Channel that was recently ( 2007) surveyed, although better than no survey is surprisingly sparely done. Often these surveys were done more with commercial traffic in mind so the level of detail and accuracy off the beaten track can surprise you and not in a good way.

GPS, digital charts, radar, AIS all great things don’t leave home without at least the first two. But if you rely solely on GSP and electronic charts sooner than later stuff will happen that a 20 inch plotter will not prevent. Not all big vessels transmit AIS, radar can be tricky to interpret. Particularity in bad weather, close to shore or in congested areas, don’t let all the pretty coloured images fool you into thinking you are safe.

Friend of mine sailing down wind lassoed a channel marker with his main sheet. It was a cute trick, worthy of Roy Rogers. He was preoccupied looking for it on his chart plotter when it happened. I missed a 2 mile wide channel once while trying to “find” it on the gps map. Sailed right by…

Another interesting trap is Nexrad Cell phone based weather. Probably not huge issue for a sailboat given we move so slowly, but the time delay on weather radar can can be up to 20 minutes. Between the time of the radar sweep, the creation of the image, the data transmission to the cell system and the upload to your device, all steps that take time…and flying a small plane at 200 knots, that storm you see on Nexrad can be a whole lot closer that it appears.

I am attaching a recent article from Yachting on e charts. Hope they won’t be too cross with me sharing it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aFVMxHDi_cogP1ETzIVBIRhdhL926Fv6/view?usp=sharing

I have two installed GPS units on board, one Garmin with WAS, the other an early Garmin. I also use an IPad with a Garmin GLO Bluetooth unit. The GLO is very accurate as is WAS. I learned redundancy of navigational instruments when I was an active pilot.
I also carry authorized charts for the area I am cruising in.

Obsessive compulsive, you bet…

Brian McCuaig. NS30u
Whitby, Ontario

“Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most."

Thank you to everyone. Such helpful posts. To paraphrase Brian, Having the INA is a great
reason for owning a Nonsuch!

Cheers
Steve O
N26C #172 ANU
Marblehead MA

there is hope for my winter budget if the i50 and i60 cover the holes that will be left behind from the DM gauges. Will still need to paint some (some scratches while taking out the old), but touch-up painting is much cheaper then repainting a bulkhead.

lloyd herman
Rendezvous, 30U
Port Washington, NY

I just googled “SeaStar” marine electronics.
They seem to focus on steering systems and your picture appears to be for an Autopilot?
Now called domestic.com
West Marine apparently carries their products.
Here’s the website. Good luck.
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwizs8zovYDtAhWIicgKHY-DB-QYABATGgJxdQ&ae=2&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESQOD2ZRBFKHqef_973xwYw4xLDHbXbbX2ZYGw_qoNZkhcKLTm1dXvWVteoRJksXE-o2b23Yc0RWHbwlbKl0A29fI&sig=AOD64_3gkcBK-mJ0wkfGIQqWwTcjueoS7Q&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwjgpcHovYDtAhUymuAKHQTWBY8Q0Qx6BAgeEAE

Eric C. Hakanson
NS 30U #484 “Carpe Diem”
Boothbay Harbor Yacht Club
Boothbay Harbor, ME

Here’s an update Lloyd. There was only about 1/4” to spare each side but the seal is fine. There will be no problem, they are solid.

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thanks, Paul. Feeling better about this project - if I can just get the old Data Marine instruments out w/o doing major damage!! Do the Raymarine gauges go in with gaskets or do you have to bed them?

(and to all - sorry for goofing up this Garmen conversation with Raymarine talk. I should learn how to change the subject so as to convert the conversation to a new one.)

lloyd herman
Rendezvous, 30U
Port Washington, NY

I got the old ones off with a stiff putty knife ground to a knife edge. It wasn’t too hard at all. The new ones are foam gaskets. Much better.

Hi, We are the new owners of CATBIRD a 1983 Nonsuch 26 formerly of Etobicoke Yacht Club. We sail/boat seasonally out of Tobermory, Ontario, while living in Port Credit, Lake Ontario. CATBIRD has not been in the water 2020 season. She is clean, well maintained and ready for electronic navigation instrument upgrades.

I have followed Steve’s question and the comment threads with interest. We really value this discussion group. Thank you.

We have a Stanley 21 Islander with Garmin GPSMap 942 XSV w/ Transducer which is excellent because it includes detailed charts with water contour depths, water depth readout, wind direction and speed readout, boat speed and waypoints. We do a lot of close to shore boating with regular anchoring in harbours and lee of islands for swimming, snorkelling. So we do really rely on the Garmin and have found it excellent. CATBIRD only has original instruments. While we want to see what works and how reliable it is, we want immediate upgrades and plan, like Steve, perhaps a two part upgrade. We think we should get the same Garmin chat plotter we like or something similar with a future plan to add a wired GNX Sail Pack next season as needed. I read that the wireless is not recommended for masts over 50 feet. We hope to mount the chartplotter on a NavPod on the binnacle. We need to be able to read it effectively. Our marina team will install for us and we are seeking their advice too.

Is there another member who has just done the Garmin system? I see some comments.

We are blessed with super clear waters and life experience of our Fathom Five shores and islands area to rely on. Yes, I took all the Power Squadron navigation courses back in the day and keep local paper charts up to date. Not to worry.

Thanks,

Terry and Peter

Hi Terry -

You have purchased a lovely and well-cared-for vessel. Martin and his wife (forgot her name !!) took fine care of pale-blue trimmed CATBIRD at EYC. The boat wasn’t used much in the last few years but I suspect that you’ll remedy that situation. CATBIRD was one of three Nonsuches at EYC.

I can’t contribute to this discussion of chartplotters, etc. as I only have rudimentary instruments aboard MOUSTACHES, my N22 O/B, that is berthed just across from where CATBIRD resided, at EYC. It’s previous owners are very nice folks and you will have a great time with this dynamite boat up there in heavenly Tobermory.

I just wanted to say “HI” as I know this neat boat, a little.

Stay healthy.

Ernie A. in Toronto

Hi Ernie,
Thanks for your warm welcome. Yes Martin and Liza have been wonderful and plan to join us at our Tobermory guest cottage for spring launch, to literally show us the ropes. They did wonderful briefings for us and were very helpful in facilitating the departure of CATBIRD from EYC.
Will tell them of our exchange when we touch base with them again!
Nonsuch community is a great group!
Yes, stay healthy!
Terry