I’d like to get a 2 speed self-tailing winch to replace the 1 speed Barient 10ST on the starboard coaming of my 1982 NS 26. That’s the winch I use to haul in the main sheet. I assume the Barient winch is original equipment on the boat. The limiting factor in finding a suitable replacement seems to be the width of the coaming, which is only about 4 inches. That limits the size of the base of the new winch. Does anyone have a suggestion for a replacement winch? Thanks.
Something about the width of the coaming on your boat doesn’t seem to jive. You say it’s 4" wide.
On my former boat, Moustaches, an NS22, I had a total of FOUR Lewmar 16 single-speed ST winches. Two were mounted on the cabin top (one each side) and, lucky me, I had a mainsheet winch on each side, mounted at the typical winch placement position on the coaming. That position gives the winch a larger base to sit on as it’s rounded. On my 22-footer, that base must have been darn near 5" wide. The Lewmar ST 16 base diameter is about 4.5". Thus, the winch did fit perfectly. I can only assume that this winch placement position on a bigger boat (your NS26) would be even wider, say close to 6". I love the Lewmar Ocean range of winches. My personal recommendation for a new sheet winch is a Lewmar ST 30, a two-speed winch. It has a base diameter of about 5.5" and I’d be very surprised if it would NOT fit on the widened area on the coaming where your present winch is mounted. It would make grinding the mainsheet a walk in the park.
Here are two links to Lewmar 16 and 30 ST winches:
Elsie I switched to an Anderson 28 2 speed self tailing winch for the mainsheet over a decade ago. When I changed my rig to a standing gaff I mounted it on the coaming without any difficulty. Please note that one can luff and take in slack without having to exert oneself winching in the mainsheet. Also, you might like to consider adding a snap shackle to the bitter end of the mainsheet. This allows you to have a single purchase in light airs by snapping it onto itself. The single mainsheet line is less likely to pull the wishboom in when running in light airs.
As good as Lewmar winches are, Anderson winches are like jewels. They truly are a thing of beauty. And … John Newell knows his onions (and winches), a lot. If your bank account can handle it, go with the Anderson.
A bit late, but I’ll second the Anderson recommendation, I’ve worked with them a lot and would use them in a heartbeat even over the chrome Harkens which are very nice winches.
I put a Karver KCW45 on our 30C, and it’s amazing. The high gear is unlike any other winch out there and, for a mainsheet as long as ours, it’s nice to be able to bring in so much sheet so quickly. The low gear is equivalent to a size 45 winch (hence the name) but the high gear (6.1 power ratio) brings line in faster than any winch I’ve ever used that’s not a 3-speed. The base is a size 25, so it fits right on the combing and teak spacer with zero modifications. A little more expensive, but for us it’s the perfect mainsheet winch.
I’d be curious if anyone has any experience with the Ronstan winches? The 30QT, in particular. Seems to be based on the Anderson (ribs and gearing). Not jewelry like the Andersons, but for the choker in particular I could see value in the QuickTrim feature…though I’m not sure I understand exactly how it works or what it does. Anyone used one yet?
Chad Demarest
bluebird (30C)
Kingston, MA / Pocasset, MA
I’m not at my boat right now and can’t check, but I’m pretty sure that the mainsheet Barient ST winches on both my 26’s were more like 16 or 18 than 10, so you should be able to size up. A Barient 10 sounds very undersized, so I can certainly understand why you want to change it.
Be aware that, according to Mauripro Sailing, Barient “did not use the same numbering scheme as modern Harken, Anderson and Lewmar winches [for which] the number of a winch is prominently the power ratio of that winch.” I’ve bought stuff from them, and like them, but prices are variable so I’d recommend shopping around. However, in deciding what size winch you’re shopping for, you might want to take a look at this web page of theirs, because it in turn points to the size selection guides for Andersen, Harken, and Lewmar: https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/category/winches-selection-guide.html
There’s another comparison table at https://l-36.com/compare.php which is in a more convenient form because it shows the equivalent models between manufacturers. However, it hasn’t been updated since 1997. If anyone knows a good source of a more up-to-date comparison table, I hope they’ll post it.
If you haven’t already considered doing so, a cheap investment might also be to size up the length of your winch handle. It’s surprising how much leverage 2" longer gains you.
Even if that doesn’t help enough and you still need a bigger winch, the longer winch handle will make the new winch more powerful.
Another option to consider is buying an electric winch handle. This can get more expensive, but can be moved around for us on all the winches – and taken with you if moving to another boat. There’s a religious debate on this topic between three sects: the Adapt-an-Electric-Drillers, the WinchRiters, and the E-Winchers. (Listed in ascending order of cost.) The New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide on the INA website has a good write-up on the tradeoffs.
If the cockpit coaming is a little too narrow for a larger modern winch, you could attach to the coaming a Teflon base of the correct diameter to match the new winch’s diameter. Then mount the winch on the Teflon base. You may want this with a slight bevel to align with the angle of the incoming mainsheet. See attached photo of my winch, it is mounted on a beveled wood base.
If you need some help, I recommend Steve White (604-250-2381), of SW Rigging, a good friend of Paul Shield. He is nearby you, lives on Salt Spring island. Steve will know what to do, very experienced, maybe has a better idea than above, and he may even have a 2nd-hand winch that will work for you.
Oops. Because it’s in a separate thread of replies to discussion summaries, I missed your post from several days ago in which you said that your early-model boat doesn’t have the widened space for winches at the coaming, Elsie.
I’ve copied your picture over to get it into this thread:
Maybe John can chip in with how he got his Andersen 28 to fit.
Looking at the winch base diameter dimension offers a rough guide. For example, taking a quick look at the dated comparison in that L-36 table I mentioned, it looks like the Andersen 28 base may only be only 0.25 inches bigger than the Barient 10’s. But, that was in 1997 and may have changed since.
The critical dimension you’ll want to check will be the distance between bolts for the winch you’d be buying. This is usually buried in the installation manuals unless you have a physical sample to look at and measure.
However, keep in mind that the coaming’s rounded at its edges. You need room outside the bolt holes for fender washers or backing plates underneath. These need to lie flat against the underside of the coaming top. That means the available space for fitting a new winch is actually restricted to the flat space underneath the coaming before it starts to curve, measured from underneath the coaming. I guess you could safely approximate that by using the width of the nonskid on the coaming top. (Measuring it more precisely, if you wanted to do so, would entail removing the instrument panel or might require crawling into the compartment and reaching up.)
I wish I could help by being able to just say, “Oh, just buy an X.” But, the devil’s in the details.
If you’re not doing the installation yourself, the winch installation may require some labor and additional parts costs to factor in. (Something to keep in mind if weighing the new winch vs. an electric winch handle cost tradeoffs.)
I believe that the Barient 10 was the standard winch for the 26 and the 19 2 speed self tailing an optional upgrade. George fitted a 19 on Mascouche for his summer cruise. Rather than having to crank hard or go to a huge expense, one can always luff and take in the slack. That is how it was done before sailors could afford winches.
I was able to fit the Andersen on the cockpit combing without making modifications. Prior to changing rigs, it had been mounted on the binnacle with the mainsheet being fed through the aft end of the cockpit combing to blocks in the bilge and up to the winch on the front of the binnacle. It was great for single handed sailing and in a blow. I guess George felt the arrangement was too expensive for production boats. Now I use it for the gaff sheet and needed to move the Andersen to the combing to tail the mainsheet that is mounted on a traveler ahead of the dodger.
Brian, you are probably correct, maybe its not Teflon, I perhaps should have said Teflon-like material. I can’t remember now exactly what it is called. I happen to have some leftover from a previous boat, was used to mount winches to prevent over-rides. See photo.
Different Brian here, but it’s probably UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight) plastic. You can get it at McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com). Here’s the main UHMW page: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/plastics/plastic~/ It comes in various types and thicknesses. Available cut sizes vary depending on type and thickness, but once you get used to their filtering you can probably get fairly close to the size you need. Thickness will be the most important dimension because that is going to affect strength and line lead angle into your winch and because it is very difficult to change if you get it wrong. Length and width can be adjusted with most woodworking saws - power or manual.
Don’t know where you are, but they deliver overnight to my house in southern CA.
I’m not saying that this will work to fit a larger winch onto a narrower coaming because I don’t know and I’m sure it probably depends on other things. (It is what I would try on my own boat.) I’m just saying where to get the plastic like in that photo.
My vote goes to the Anderson 28 as well. I mounted mine on an angled teak disk that was well varnished. It looks grand and functions very well. I also removed the jamb cleat from the coming and moved the turning block from the coming to the starboard fairlead as it is rigged on the NS30. This setup works very well.
Randy Gadikian,
Phoenix Rising
NS 26C # 37
Buffalo, NY
Elsie,
Andersen were bought out by Ronstan but Ronstan continues to sell the Andersen winches. I installed an Andersen 28 2 speed self tailing winch on the starboard coaming to run the mainsheet. The Andersen is robust and easy to service. It will fit the coaming but the edges of the winch will over hang slightly. I made and installed a 2” high teak plinth under the winch. I did this because at the time I installed the winch I also moved the standing block on the back of the coaming down onto the rear deck. I removed the turning block from the starboard rear corner of the coaming and attached a turning block to the starboard stern fair lead/chock, the same as Randy, so it was similar to the setup on the 30’s. The plinth under the winch was necessary to stop the mainsheet from rubbing on eyebrow. Moving the mainsheet blocks moved the mainsheet slightly further away from the person on the helm. Also when a new sailor is helming I tend to sit on the back coaming of the cockpit. Moving the sheet meant I no longer sat on the sheet. Like Joe I would really miss the jam cleat if it was removed from the coaming. Over 95% of the time I use the jam cleat rather than the self tailing jaws to hold the sheet.
In order to harden up the sail and sail closer to the wind, I would head upwind and pinch. This would allow me to pull in the mainsheet (likely even a bit too much). I’d bear off (now closer to the wind) and, if required, ease out a bit of line. Or as John Newell states, luff and take in the slack.
I think I put a winch handle in that mainsheet winch once in 11 years.
Thank you all for these very helpful suggestions. So just to summarize, the coaming on my NS26 does not have a “bump out” to make it wider where the winch sits. So I’ll need some sort of base or bracket under the winch if the base of it is wider than the coaming. I’ve had suggestions here of using a teak disc or an ultra high molecular weight plastic. I’ve been to look at Giles Hogya’s NS 26 Solo Meow which is near Canoe Cove in BC That boat has a Lewmar 40 for the sheet winch. A metal bracket has been fashioned to stick out past the starboard coaming to accommodate the extra width of the base. I’m not sure how to choose between a teak or plastic disc or a metal bracket.
Also, I went to look at Anderson winches at Harbour Chandler in Nanaimo yesterday. They can order the Andersen 2 speed self-tailing 28 ($1,180.00 Cdn), or the Andersen 34 for $70.00 more, ($1,250.00 Can). The base diameter on those two winches is identical. They also have a special on an Andersen 40 2-speed ST winch for $1150 Can, down from the regular price of $1575.00. So that is the least cost option. But that is a huge winch and the low gear on it barely moves the sheet at all. The specs for the Andersen 28 and Andersen 34 are very similar, same size base, same size drum, same height, bigger winch is marginally heavier and slightly different speed ratios and power speed ratios. As I am a smaller female and might need a stronger winch than some of you stronger males (grin), I’m tempted to get the Andersen 34. While the Andersen 40 is less expensive at the moment because of the sale, it might look ridiculous on Seven Stars, the base is a inch wider than the 28 and the 34 and the low gear hardly moves the sheet at all. I understand that I can head up until the sail luffs and sheet in more easily, but I will be replacing the existing one speed Barient 10 and appreciate your advice on which way to jump.
I also happen to have the Milwaukee right angled drill that used to raise the main on my NS 22 and Paul Miller has kindly shown me how to use it on the main sheet winch and has even made a tether for it so it can’t throw itself overboard. So that is going to be a help as well.
Thanks again for all your help and continued advice.
I wasn’t actually advocating for the UHMW, I was just naming the mystery material being discussed. I think any of the three mounting materials could be made to work just fine. The teak will look nice if you keep it varnished, but will require occasional sanding and re-applications. The plastic will look functional, require no maintenance and probably be the least expensive. I made a mounting block for a halyard clutch out of black UHMW and am very happy with it. If you use stainless steel to support a stainless steel Anderson winch it will look really good and appropriate, could be made the strongest option if well designed, will be the hardest to modify if you get something wrong in the design, and will cost the most money to fabricate. (Notice that we “make” things from teak or plastic but we “fabricate” them from stainless steel. Probably has something to do with the cost.) Amateur photographers walking the docks will stop to compose artful photos of it, so keep it polished. Etc.
I cannot advise on the winch. Others here are way more competent to do that.
