I enjoy learning sailing my NS26 C in the changing conditions on the Buffalo Waterfront. Tonight was a perfect example as the winds were from the northwest at around 15 MPH when we first raised the sail and were considerably stronger after we had been sailing for a few minutes. During our two hours of sailing we put in one reef and then a second, achieving a good sail shape with the reefs in for the first time. Top speed was 8.2 mph un-reefed, 7.5 with one reef and and 7 with two reefs.
Should I be going faster than this or are these typical speeds for a Nonsuch 26?
I would call that fast. Of course point of sail and sea/lake state would be part of the assessment. Sounds like you had an enjoyable sail at speeds that are typically fast for a Nonsuch 26.
Hull speed of a 26 is something like 6.3 knots. (I’ve got a 26)
I have 2 on-board units that give me GPS speed over ground (SOG), and one of those paddle-wheel Raymarine devices that should give through-water speed but gets clogged up.
How are you measuring speed? How do you know that it’s accurate? On my two ways of measuring, speed can be way off between the two methods (like, one is saying we are going 2x faster than the other)
If your knotmeter is like mine the paddle wheel has two magnets attached. When one falls off your speed log will only register half the true speed. The good news is that it is an easy fix and a new paddle wheel assembly is pretty cheap and easy to install - you can even do it while the boat is in the water.
Having said that, my knotmeter always seems to show a higher speed than what registers on my GPS unit. There is a way to adjust the knotmeter reading, so on a calm day with no current you could motor at a steady speed and adjust the meter to match the GPS.
The speeds mentioned here are comparable to the ones I get with a decent amount of wind. If you are fighting chop or bigger waves you will of course slow down and if there is a current you wouldn’t expect the log and GPS speeds to match anyway.
We often notice similar discrepancies between our knotmeter (wheel) and the Garmin GPS readout from our chartplotter.
I tend to believe the one stating the faster speed.
Isn’t that the most appropriate and best choice?
Yes, it is exhilarating to glide through the water at 7.8knots or more. I am pretty sure we’ve had Sashay up to 7.9 but I don’t have photographic evidence.
The 26 is known to be a fast boat.
Enjoy.
Helen Dakin
NS 33 #7
Sashay
Collins Bay Marina, Kingston ON
Knotmeters can be wrong. I don’t think a working GPS can be wrong. If the time is correct on the GPS, it’s working. Racer’s like knotmeters because they react faster then a GPS unit when trimming for better speed.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Previous owner of FATE removed her knotmeter. I know knotmeters frequently foul and removing it meant one less hole in the boat. Still, I wish I had it back at times. Would be useful to help determine the amount of current I’m facing.
Hey Ralph - did not know about the 2 magnets on the paddle wheel but it makes sense, thought it’d be one like on a bicycle wheel.
When we took possession last Autumn, the knot meter was not working - always reading 0.0. There is a way to remove it when in the water, but decided against it.
Anyway, had a look when we took the boat out for winter, and the little paddlewheel was chock full of zebra mussels. It works better this year, but I do keep an eye on it.
I am using an app on my iphone called Speedometer by a company called Mikrasya.
If I calculate knots using a formula of 1 mph = .869 knots I come up with 6.9 knots for 8 mph. Considering that I don’t really know what I am doing I’m pretty happy with the speed. The surprising thing to me was how fast we were going with two reefs and how pleasant the boat was to sail. I need more work on reefing technique but I am really quite pleased with the boat.
Just adding an incremental bit to the discussion, on the complexities of measuring speed: knotmeters measure speed relative to the water, GPS measures speed relative to the fixed ground underneath.
Even when the instruments are at perfect accuracy, both instruments’ measurements reflect an interaction of the performance of the boat with the movement of the water.
For example, tidal directions can increase or decrease the apparent motion relative to the water, impacting the knotmeter readings. Similarly, they can push a boat moving with the tide faster over the ground than the boat would move against that tide even if the wind was equally favorable and the boat was equally well-sailed, a factor to be considered in interpreting GPS measurements. You can easily imagine situations where the water currents relative to the boat will skew GPS and knotmeter readings in opposite directions.
Some people enjoy getting deep into these details, others find them boring/overwhelming.
Without urging people to take either viewpoint (I myself alternate between them on different days), I’ll come back to where I started – they are fun to sail, aren’t they?
Just because it’s still seared in my memory, but last year, heading to Port Townsend from Seattle area, the wind piped up to 25 knots or so as I was going directly downwind, and I just couldn’t bring myself to reef as I was consistently showing 10-12 knots on the GPS. Planing, surfing, a knot or two of tide perhaps, but it took a while to wipe the grin off my face.
Of course none of us bought our boats to go fast, so I think anything above 6 knots is fast.
Brian Berdan
Blue September
260 #007
Bainbridge Island, Washington
Knotmeters are most accurate if the water that they are moving through is dead calm - no current, no waves. Only a GPS can give you exact (or real close) speed from point A to point B as it has nothing to do with “what the water is doing”. If you are on a run downwind, the water and/or waves are moving in the same direction as the boat and the knotmeter will show “slow”. If you are sailing upwind, with a decent wind, the wind is blowing the water “against” the boat and the knotmeter will show “fast”
It’s the boat direction relative to the water direction - that’s a knotmeter.
The hull speed for the fleet is as follows: 22 - 6.08, 26 - 6.61, 30 & 324 - 7.18, 33 & 345 - 7.52, and the 36 - 7. 78. This are all nautical miles per hour. The numbers are approximate and come from http://www.tomdove.com/sailcalc/sailcalc.html
I recommend the sight because it gives a lot of information on a large number of boats. You can search by boat and compare different boats.
As a displacement hull, all Nonsuch boats, approaches hull speed it effectively digs a hole in the water as it pushes the water to the side. As a result it starts to go up hill. At hull speed it takes a huge amount of power to push the boat up the face of the wave. That power is simply not available to us under sail so the boat maxes out in speed at the theoretical hull speed. If you have a following Sea the wave coming up behind fills in the hole and the boat will pick up speed as it surfs down the face of the wave. If the wave speed is close to the boat speed you can ride the wave for several seconds maybe more. In those conditions you can frequently exceed the theoretical hull speed.
I have theory or at least speculate that on the Nonsuch with the mast well forward as you sail downwind the pus/pull of the sail acts as on the mast which levers the stern of the boat upward, effectively pulling it out of the hole. This also allows the boat to exceed theoretical hull speed when sailing dead down wind in strong wind. This is similar to the effect of a symmetrical spinnaker. I would love t9 hear what others think of my theory.
There is a risk in that as the stern lifts the rudder also lifts and you have less control the you might wish or need.
I believe my knot metre is relatively accurate as I check it regularly against the GPS. Yes, I take into account the effect current has on speed through the water vs speed over ground. La Reina has exceed seven knots on a frequent basis when sailing downwind and on one glorious occasion with 22 knots true wind, full sail and surfing down the face of a large wave she touched 9 knots for a nano second. She does not exceed hull speed on a close reach. If I really feel like going fast I can play with the adjustment screw on the back of the knot metre and sail at almost any speed I desire.
Yes, Mark, I too, hit 9 knots while surfing one day in a race. Scared hell out of me when I looked at the GPS. I immediately rounded up and reefed down.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
My take is: if you approach or slightly exceed these numbers, it’s skill. If you’re dramatically above or below, it’s probably either the instruments’ or the conditions’ fault.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C, #143
P.S. Before anyone responds to this post, please note the above was intended as humor.
