Lifeline Replacement

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
1

Hello Everyone!

It is seems to be time to replace my lifelines. I have checked the archives and there doesn’t appear to be any recent input - most discussions are 7 to 10 years old.

Any recommendations/relatively recent experiences for whom I should use to produce new lifelines?

I would prefer to use the vinyl coated as I like the aesthetic and hand, but I do understand the importance of having the visibility of the uncoated lines. Thoughts here are welcome too.
My current coated lines are original and 33 years old, so… I’ve been lucky?

I am hoping to reuse most of the hardware, if possible, as most pieces seem to be rust-free and in good shape… and I would prefer not to spend dollars I don’t need to.

Many thanks,
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

2

I replaced mine 15 years ago.. Used bare wire and IMHO much better than the covered wire, I simply took the old ones off took them to a rigger and he made new ones.

They still look like the day they were installed.

T

3

My original lifelines were the coated type and I replaced them at 20 years with bare stainless. As I recall, there were some areas around the fittings that looked questionable, so glad we did it. I know people are trying dyneema, but you have to replace more often and it certainly can get nicked easier than steel.

Brian & Susan Berdan
“Blue September”
260 #7
Bainbridge Island, WA

4

Peter,
I used Seco South https://www.secosouth.com/marine/ to replace the life lines on my Island Packet 40 about 15 years ago and for my Nonsuch 30 last year. They do very good work and are priced right. That said they had some glitches with timely delivery of my
Nonsuch order which I believe was very atypical for them. To their credit they made good by not invoicing me!
They were not able to use the existing hardware because, as I recall, the thread was metric. But you should check with them.

Don Ringsmuth
Selkie 30-425
East Hampton, NY

5

First, and most important, almost all the threads are left handed so remember Lefty tighty righty Loosey.
Also remember the upper lines are 3/16 and the lower lines are 1/8 of an inch.

CS Johnson’s website has a whole catalog of the parts that you need. I used the hand swaging tool when i replaced the lines on my 22 footer. Slow but gets the job done.
I found Fisheries Supply in Seattle to be the low cost provider for almost everything that I needed.
I prefer the coated wire since I’ve been snagged too many times on bare wire.

When I bought the 26-footer this fall I removed the upper lines, measured the lengths and purchased the wire. Got a quarter inch bolt cutter from Harbor Freight for $15 and prepared each length.
Until recently, I had a friend working at our local West Marine and I was able to go into that shop and use their bigger CS Johnson swaging tool at no cost.

This West Marine repeatedly sells the tool and then provides a refund when the customer is finished with it. Corporate probably would not be happy if they knew.
The only reason I got into this is because the yard failed to take advantage when I asked them to replace them on the 22-footer. In the Long Haul I saved a bunch of money and I had plenty of time.

Joe
NS 26C #156

6

I just cut off the cracked, hardened vinyl off of mine last night. Looks so much better.

My recollection is that the fittings are not reusable. They have to be hydraulically mechanically swaged onto the cable. Basically the metal is squeezed onto the cable to withstand enormous stresses, so they can’t be reused and they can cost you more than the cable.

Any local rigging company can do it for you or you can send them out to someone. There’s nothing special other than specifying the cable type and diameter from the Nonsuch manual. You can look up Wire Rope and/or Rigging in google maps. Should be lots of them in the Jersey City/Newark/Elizabeth area. Shopping online for the hardware is a little tricky unless you know the exact hardware you need.

You could always try cutting off the vinyl first to see if they look OK and also to see if any of them are structurally failing. Vinyl hides the rusting cables and traps water inside, promoting rust. I used an Olfa knife and just slit it down the middle. Ran through a few blades and it took me about 1/2 hour per cable.

Good luck!

Bob G
NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”
Baltimore, Maryland

7

I replaced my lifelines with Dyneema about 15 months ago.

It’s too early to comment on longevity but, FWIW, I can say that I’m happy with time, cost, and aesthetics.

– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143

8

Thank you all for the input on the lifelines. The information is very useful!!

Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

9

Hi Don,

Thank you for your specifics!
It appears our boats are close sisters… yours is #425, mine is #430.

Can you tell me the approximate cost you paid last year for your lifelines from Secosouth?
Did you do both upper and lower lines, and did you reuse your existing hardware or buy all new hardware?

Thank you!
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

10

Peter,
I don’t remember what the cost was going to be, but as I said they screwed up the order and finally got to them to me without charge. They did both upper and lowers on my Nonsuch and Island Packet. As I said
They were not able to use the existing hardware because, as I recall, the thread was metric.
Call Jean D’Alessandro 888-535-7326 at Seco. I’m sure she will remember our transaction. She was embarrassed by the problems
Don

Hi Don,

Thank you for your specifics!
It appears our boats are close sisters… yours is #425, mine is #430.

Can you tell me the approximate cost you paid last year for your lifelines from Secosouth?
Did you do both upper and lower lines, and did you reuse your existing hardware or buy all new hardware?

Thank you!
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

11

Hi Bob,

I am considering going to Dyneema or Amsteel and was wondering if some of the original fittings can be mated with some new pieces from C.S. Johnson so I don’t need to replace all of the hardware.

Can you share how you did yours? Did you purchase all new hardware or did you reuse some of the original pieces?

About what was your total cost, if you don’t mind me asking?

Thank you,
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

12

Peter,

I’m afraid I don’t remember the total cost, although I just refreshed my memory on current prices and see that 3/16th Amsteel is about 2/3rds the price of 3/16th stainless wire, as well as being about 45% stronger.

I has able to reuse a few things – the gate hooks and a few eyes. Reusing the gate hooks saved a lot of money (those puppies ain’t cheap). My recollection was that I had to find eye bolts going into the gate hooks that were LH threaded, and a few LH treaded nuts to use as locknuts. Those cost a bit, but not enough to eat the savings. I definitely came out ahead.

The remaining hardware was a mix of standard stainless rings, eyebolts, bolts, threaded studs and eye nuts, not a substantial cost.

One of the attached pictures shows the gate setup. (Sorry it’s a bit fuzzy – I took it looking into the sun and didn’t realize until I got home that my phone camera focused on the Nonsuch logo instead of the lifeline.) The LH-threaded eyebolt is on the right, just out of the picture. Amsteel line runs from there to the stern pulpit.

A lot of my parts’ complexity could’ve been avoided, except that I wanted a solid piece on each side of the stanchion gate to attach my fender hanger. If not for that, all I would’ve needed for the whole job was two LH eyenuts, four LH lock nuts, and a bunch of rings. I could’ve just run the lifeline through the stanchion and tied it to an eye for the gate hook to grab.

As the other picture shows, the stainless steel rings allowed me to do multi-part lashings to tension the lines.

Some time after I did the lifelines, I learned from https://www.animatedknots.com/ how to do eyesplices and soft shackles with Amsteel. It’s relatively easy (as proof of that claim: I could do it). If I were to redo the lifelines, I’d use eyesplices to the circular rings and make it stronger and cleaner looking.

Remember in measuring and cutting the line that you need to add some length for each knot you tie, not just cut the measured distance between points.

– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143

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13

Bob

Good info. I’ve also been considering replacing my life lines with Amsteel at some point. Thanks for posting your experience,

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U

14

May I ask a novice question?

Why would you replace with non-stainless wire? Price?

I honestly don’t know, but interested in learning.

JohnS NS26C 046 likely covered with snow in Bath ON.

15

Something to consider when going to amsteel. It is affected by UV. I have been considering using it for my topping lift. I like the low friction. When I asked about life expectancy I was told 4 years. SS may be less expensive in the long run.
I was also told to wash it before using it. Apparently the colour can leach out and colour the deck.

Mike Jennings
NS005 Salt Coats.
Port Moody, BC.

16

This is a long response, because Covid-19 frees up a lot of time.

Responding to John Stewart’s question about why one vs. the other, and Mike Jennings’ point about UV: there’s a set of trade-offs that can lead reasonable people to go in either direction.

Arguments for/against synthetic rope lifelines:

  • Pro: less up-front materials cost, higher strength for same diameter material, lower tools and skill requirements for do-it-yourselfers.

  • Con: not as traditional, long-term durability compared to stainless not fully determined because it hasn’t been around long enough (see more below), fewer people with experience to turn to (again, because it hasn’t been around as long).
    Arguments for/against stainless steel lifelines:

  • Pro: traditional look, more familiarity with it in the community, predictable and fairly long lifetime, more tradespeople who know how to do the work if you aren’t a do-it-yourselfer, certainly strong enough.

  • Con: higher upfront cost, buying required tools is a waste of money for do-it-yourselfers because it’s an infrequent job, covered wire rope is rust-prone and harder to assess for failure points, bare wire is easier to assess than covered but no easier than rope while also least comfortable to rub skin against and least attractive.
    There are a range of estimates on rate of UV degradation. The one Mike’s reporting is at the low end, but please don’t take me as saying he’s wrong. I’m simply saying it’s not a settled issue. My decision to go with rope over wire was based on the assessment that it’s an experiment that I can financially afford to make.

For more “on the one hand, on the other hand,” two observations from Marlow Ropes’ web site. On the one hand, their advice on UV is as follows:

All the materials used in the construction of synthetic fibre ropes are to a greater or lesser extent effected by exposure to UV radiation. Wherever possible try to limit the exposure of the rope to sunlight. Smaller ropes are effected [sic] more than large ropes since they have a larger exposed surface area in proportion to their volume. The effect of UV radiation on a rope is directly linked to the inherent UV properties of the yarn used in design and manufacture…

On the other hand, they consider the material to have the highest UV resistance of any of the rope they sell.

Based on that, my assumption in going for rope lifelines was that the UV degradation on them would be approximately the same as for the other line I use on the boat. Based on what was important to me, that was acceptable for my purposes. Since people’s priorities differ, however, there’s no one “right” choice.

– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C, #143

17

Bob - thanks for that explanation. Much appreciated - JohnS NS26C 046 lying Bath ON.

18

Hi All -

Thank you again for all of the guidance, opinions, questions posted about new lifelines. It was all very helpful.

A mid-process update:

After many measurements, and re-measurements, analysis of the situation, aesthetics, costs, DIY capabilities, and COVID-19 delays (I received 0 responses from the multiple companies to whom I sent measurements/inquiries to have lifelines professionally fabricated), I decided to go with the SUNCOR Quick Attach system. Defender had the best pricing, and they are still fulfilling orders. If you are not a Defender 1st Member - sign up!! it costs nothing and in many cases can save quite a few dollars! I ordered Saturday evening, the order is arriving this evening (72 hours).

I was leaning toward Dyneema/Amsteel rope lifelines - however, surprisingly, the cost was the about the same as traditional lifelines when all of the necessary parts were accounted for (not reusing any existing hardware), the longevity of the rope is considerably shorter (though only the rope should need replacing in 4 to 5 years - no hardware), and my splicing skills (if we want to call it skill) is suspect as I hadn’t made an eyesplice or any other kind of rope splice in probably 25 years. There are good videos on how to make splices and particularly with Dyneema, Amsteel, and Spectra lines on YouTube, but I would have to make 24 splices - which to me sounded like a lot, and if one of them was not up to quality, it could potentially be life-threatening at some point. I did find my old fid and ‘pusher’ from when I took a course on splicing!

So, with cost seemingly almost the same for each variation, the Suncor Quick Attach looks to be the easiest, no special tools required, and simple enough for me to do it by myself, without having to wait for a rigging shop to produce the new lifelines, or for me to have to send them my old lifelines to copy.

The hardware is all 316 Stainless, and looks robust enough to properly do the job. The hardware may appear a bit bulky, but I would rather have a little bulky than a flimsy feel. The reviews that I found that covered the last 10 years leaned very heavily on the positive side.

All of the parts are now Made in the USA, so hopefully quality control is higher, but that may not always be the case, but I prefer to buy USA/Canadian products if possible.

I opted to buy the same vinyl coated 3/16th inch 316 stainless wire rope (7x7) with a coated diameter of 5/16th’s inch, as I am accustomed to the size/feel in my hand. I rarely ever race so coated vs uncoated doesn’t play into this decision, and I know to inspect frequently. The lines I am replacing are my original lines, so 33 years old, and I should have replaced them a few years ago (ok… more like 20 years ago!)… So, even if I get 10 years of life from the new lines, and then need to replace the wire rope, the replacement cost will not be high as all of the Quick Attach fittings from Suncor are reusable.
The only tool I don’t have is a wire-rope cutter, which a couple of my marina neighbors offered to lend to me. Apparently, my hacksaw makes a nice, clean, easy cut through the old lifelines (I tested), so I do not need to buy a cutter just for this project.

I will post photos, and video (possibly) after completing the removal of the old and installation of the new lifelines.

Stay safe!!

Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ

19

Harbor freight boltcutter 1/4 in.. $15. Much better than my hacksawing.
Joe
NS26C# 156

20

Hi Joe -
Thanks for the Harbor Freight suggestion. I had gone to their site and saw that bolt cutter. What stopped me was the 7 to 10 day delay in shipping due to Covid-19… I was able to borrow a neighbor’s cutter.
Project is completed - more on how it went and vids/photos to come…

Peter
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30 Ultra 430
Jersey City, NJ