Mast and wishbone boom maintenance

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
21

“Rome wasn’t built in a day”. It’s a common expression, Ernie, for “things take time”. I can already see how much you enjoy correcting me! I’m delighted to have your input though, because of your good humour and because our boats are about as closely related as two boats can be. And you have the experience I do not. I’ve now owned this boat for a week! Yay!! I have not yet sailed her except for the very supervised trip up from Sidney to Maple Bay.

When you ask me questions like “What kind of halyard do you have?”, please remember that I’ve just learned the word “halyard”. I have no idea what kind of halyard winch I have, except that, prompted by you I’ve just looked at the list of improvements done by the seller and there’s a note “July 2019 - replaced original halyard winch with 2 speed self-tailing Lewmar.” I wouldn’t know what a 2 speed self-tailing winch is if I fell over it. I am headed to the marina and will take a look at it on the boat. I’ll have to google 2 speed self-tailing halyard winch first to find out what it is. It’s a lovely thing to be a beginner and to be comfortable with that. Oh, I’ve just found out on Google that the “self-tailing” feature means “you don’t need a crew member to pull your tail for you” … hahaha.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the mast on this boat has never been removed. The guy who did the pre-purchase survey thought it looked fine, but of course he couldn’t inspect most of it. I can almost guarantee that neither of the previous two owners had it done. With the previous owner, Rosy spent every winter since 2017 on the hard in cradles with the mast in place. The surveyor told me that on a boat of this size and in a fairly sheltered location, the wind forces on the mast would not have been a problem. Paul Shield, the broker who helped me with the purchase, concurred and I think he’s pretty conversant with Nonsuches. The owner before that kept her in the water, as I will do too.

Okay, I’m off to see what a 2 speed self-tailing winch looks like. Thanks for all your good advice. I’ll need a minute or two to learn about my new boat / new sport.

22

Elsie: If it were my new purchase, I’d take a picture of the area where the butt of the mast connects to the shoe and send it to the group. Twice this year I’ve come across surveyed Nonsuch boats that should not be sailed due to problems.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

23

Hi Joe,

When I started to think about buying a Nonsuch I joined the INA and did a lot of research. I read much of the material on the INA site, including an account of someone who had to replace the mast step (shoe) and who documented the process with photographs. I read about how the mast could take a beating if the boat was kept on the hard with the mast in place, for the exact reason you described … the boat can’t rock in the cradles as it would if it were in the water, so the mast has to take the force of the wind. In view of that, and because I could not go and view the boat myself (border restrictions due to Covid) , and because I knew this boat had been on the hard for a year with the mast in place, I called the surveyor and asked him to pay particular attention to the area at the foot of the mast and where it goes through the deck. He did that, photographed those areas and reported on them. Happily, they are fine.

I’ve now got a boat tech attending to the things recommended by the surveyor .. some wiring issues, installing an automatic bilge pump, etc.

I appreciate your comments.

24

That’s great, Elsie! You wouldn’t believe what I found on one boat I looked at.

Joe

25

Ernie … so generous of you to take time to explain all this. It’s invaluable. I can’t wait to follow all these steps to have a smooth sliding sail. And look what the seller left on the boat for me. Just found it!
Elsie
NS22 Rosy Red
Maple Bay, BC

(attachments)

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26

Wooohooo !! A free can of Sailkote. Pure gold, it’ll last you for years. It is a great product.

So now I have a question (and I may have misunderstood something … it does actually happen). Mark Powers had noticed on his HUGE flat screen monitor that your **mainsheet (**3:1 - the rope attached to the end of your boom to adjust how far out you want the sail to set) does not go to a winch on the starboard (right) side of your cockpit. It simply goes to a cleat. meaning that you just pull in all of that rope and stick it into a cleat, to hold it. You do not wrap it around a winch. Is that correct ??

If so, you do not have a winch on either side of the cockpit - you only have TWO winches on the top of the cabin top, one on each side, right ?

Or … ?? Better yet, could you tell us exactly where all of your winches are ?? Do not think that I am alluding to “something being wrong”. Not the case. I am just curious.

Here is a link to a “Rolex” winch, made in France. It has a grey exterior. We are talking USD, not Canadian monopoly money.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|2358547|2358549&id=6516651

Here’s a diamond-studded Rolex winch -

https://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/product/LEW49050015.html

My shiny single-speed Lewmar winch happens to be a chrome one. They come in dull grey, chrome and, maybe another finish. Yours is a grey one. and, it’s seen salt water spray, etc. If, when you turn it either way, it doesn’t just go clickety-click but is truly stiff and feels “unlubricated”, it probably is unlubricated. Not broken, just in need of a cleanup. These winches are built to be taken apart and lubed and cleaned, maybe, every year but this can be skipped if the winch feels and sounds fine. It really should be done every few years. Your winches will love you (and you’ll love them).

I leave you with the question … how many winches ?

Ernie A. in Toronto

27

With all this talk about getting Elsie’s sail to go up and down easily, it seems like all the suggestions are for fixing the symptoms and not identifying the problem. Others with the same track and with much larger boats, have, in the past, said they had no problems. If that sail can’t be pulled up easily by hand, something is wrong.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

28

Joe -

You may be right and, indeed, “something may be wrong”. But, with the greatest respect, sir, I cannot pull my sail up more than halfway purely by hand. Although, if I was willing to tear a shoulder muscle … well … maybe a little more. And, I have the luxury of staring closely at my entire sail track every spring as the mast is lying there, in front of my nose. And, there appears to be absolutely nothing wrong with my sail track. It’s dead straight, not twisted or rusty or discoloured and not pulling away from the mast. And, (lots of “ands”), there is a joint in the track and the slides glide perfectly over it - I’ve checked that, too.

IF I did not clean the apcray out of my bronze sail slides, clean the same stuff off of the sail track (just a quick wipe with a wet rag, actually) and lubricate both elements, then, just using a my single-speed Lewmar ST #18 winch (not a big winch) and a handle, getting it real tight to the top would be a hell of task. By doing what I do, anyone WITHOUT a chronic shoulder problem can, easily, hand crank the sail nice and tight. I, however, use a drill and sha-zaaam, no shoulder pain and it’s much, much faster. Using a drill actually gives me 9 minutes and 8 seconds more actual sailing time per each 6 month season, in fact. Furthermore, if I didn’t clean what I do clean and lubricate what I do lubricate, my sail would not drop like a rock. I’ve learned all of this as I sailed MOUSTACHES for ten years.

Bottom line, on an NS22, my methodology seems to work. I certainly think that these few steps would make life easier for Elsie, also. Cleaning the slides and, if possible, the track and lubricating it all would, in my opinion make a big difference.

You are an ex-Navy guy. It must, then, be assumed that you have the strength of a gorilla, right ?? And, you sail an NS30 with a way bigger sail. And, you sail in salt water and may have to deal with a bit of salt encrustation, etc. Damn, you must be strong even if you are around 80 years of age.

As I said, maybe something is wrong and needs fixing but, honestly, I doubt it. I think that if Elsie cleans out those slides, dumps some Joy detergent on them and raises and lowers the sail a few times to smear the stuff on the track, waits for it to rain (which it sure has been doing where she lives) and tries raising the sail, I’ll bet that will help. A little while later, once she is sure that the detergent has faded away and the everything is dry (on one of the once-a-month-sunny-days … ), she can spray the dickens out of those sail slides with the McLube.

That is my two cents worth.

Ernie A. in Toronto

29

I would suggest that perhaps the woman deserves a moment to familiarize herself with her new toy. As far as I know she had, at the time she made the comment about difficulty raising her sail, raised it ONCE!
The first time I raised my sail it was extremely difficult as well. It became much easier when I released the reefing lines. The reefing lines don’t even need to be cleated off as mine were. They just need to be stiff from lack of use, have a kink that won’t pass a bullseye, or be a little snug in a half released clutch.
There are all sorts of other simple easy to fix answers to a sail being hard to raise after a long period of neglect.
I’m confident that Elsie will discover her problem as she becomes familiar with the boat and if she doesn’t, I would happily go over and give her a hand figuring it out.
…. Just sayin’

30

Having previously owned a Morgan 27 and a Wylie 34, both race boats with full suits of sails, I was used to hoisting mainsails and headsails by hand. Now, with advancing age, the notion of grinding the monster sail of my N36 borders on insanity. My race buddies look at the Barient 28, self-tailing electric winch and roll their eyes….until they see the size of the N36 mainsail we have to grind up the sail track. They quickly change their tune.

My point is, if the physical effort of grinding a sail up the mast is too great, spend the money on a battery-operated angle drill with the grunt to do the job for you. It will be money well spent!

Barry Connell (N36 Nocturne)

31

Ernie and Paul, I’m so grateful the two of you stepped in to say “the sky is probably not falling”. Paul, thank you for pointing out that I’ve raised Rosy’s sail exactly once to date. And on that one occasion it was a friendly, helpful previous owner, Ben Van Dremmelin, doing the sail raising, not me personally.

I love having this group available for discussion and commentary. But, honestly, this morning when I read Joe’s post I could easily have become disheartened about the boat. Then I read Ernie’s and Paul’s posts and all is well again. Thank you gentlemen.

I’ve been to Harbour Chandler in Nanaimo and Steveston Marine in Vancouver this week. I find I love looking at boat stuff. And I love going to mess around on my boat.

I’ve been reading the Nonsuch maintenance stuff on the INA site … such a great resource and I intend to take care of this boat.

Ernie, I’m in Vancouver so cannot run down to look at RR. How embarrassing to say I don’t know how many winches she has. Honesty is good though. Rest assured that if she needs more, she shall have them. BTW, this week she got a new Add a Battery kit to better manage the battery use, as well as her automatic bilge pump. Yay!

Elsie
NS22 Rosy Red
Maple Bay, BC

32

As the proud heir to the factory-installed Lewmar 40 electric halyard, reef lines and topping lift line, when it is 90° run across the passageway, I can tell you it is child’s play to raise anything.

And as a 90% of the time a single-hand sailor in the never-fail 15 to 25 kt winds of San Francisco Bay, I took it one step further by wiring in a $18 key fob remote control found on eBay that allows me to pre-wrap the halyard line and raise it comfortably behind the wheel and in full control of the vessel…

Highly recommended for our massive mains on the 33s and 36s…

33

Barry, Thank you for that. Your input is greatly appreciated. I’ll start by trying some (or all) of the tweaks suggested here to make raising the sail easier. And I’ll actually try raising the sail myself a few times; haven’t done that yet. If I find I need a battery operated angle drill, I’ll get one.
Elsie
NS22 Rosy Red

34

Haha … I was as excited as you to find that can of Sailkote. And some of it has been used. Even better.

I have recalled that there is at least one more winch hiding under a tidy red cover on the starboard aft part of the boat (the rim of the cockpit). A shiny one! Maybe more. I’ll find out when I go home mid-week.

Elsie

35

Atta girl, Captain Sands - it’s all good.

I’m glad about that winch that I thought was there, anyway.. We’ll chat about it further down the road.

Ernie A. in Toronto

36

If I do it manually, I do it at the mast and can top the sail. If I’m solo, I use the electric winch but I do have a Tides Strong Track which I heartily recommend. However, I have had other boats - including a wooden ketch. Thank you, Ernie for telling me about soapy water years ago. I consider that a free lube and don’t have to store it. BTW, just because I’m over 80 doesn’t mean I served on sailing ships in the US Navy. We did have steam.
Regards,

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

37

Winches come in various lengths, longer is better if you have the room to rotate it.

I have a 26 and a # 28 two speed winch on the main.

I can crank my sail up 50% by hand 35 percent on the fast speed and the last 5 % on slow.

Jumping it from the mast, sometimes 95%.

But my admiral would not be able to do it as she is 5’3 / 110lbs and simply does not have the strength required. I doubt any larger winch handle or winch would make any difference.

Check the slides, sometimes they wear on the edge to a point they will dig into the track. file them flat and ease the edges.

The main advantage of the Tides track is the sail drops smoothly and quickly in any kind of weather or sea state. Doing fwrd to un jam the sail in heavy seas is not a pleasant task and the TT solves that issue.

Milwaukee angle drills and winch bits seem to the the weapons of choice if the task is too much.