I am working on winter projects to get our “new to us” 1987 Nonsuch Ultra ready for spring. Our boat is happily under her winter cover on Toronto island and inaccessible for a few months. After extensive research on this site and other resources, I haven’t been able to get an accurate length to replace the topping lift line. Also, what line diameter and construction works best? I am leaning towards downsizing from the original double braid to 6 or 8mm Spectra cored line.
Thanks from an active lurker on this site.
Doug Farrand
NS30 386 Quetico (currently Pippin)
Toronto
Persistence pays off. I found the 2nd part of the scanned NS30 Ultra manuals on the Nonsuch.org site where the pennant is listed at 70 feet of 3/8" line.
Before you head out to buy any line, see what kind of blocks you have on your topping lift set-up (meaning: see what kind of mechanical advantage you have in the sysytem - 3:1 or 4:1 or … ???). Your boom and sail are REALLY heavy and there is plenty of “latent” friction in the set-up making it a serious grunt to raise the boom with the topping lift. Most of us have 2 double-blocks, giving us 4:1 advantage. If it was me, with a nice, big NS30, so help me, I’d go 5:1. Yuh, lots of line but well worth it.
Needless to add, the bigger the ratio, the more line that would be needed. Don’t end up with line that will hurt your hands. On my little NS22, I can easily raise the topping lift by just pulling on it and not throwing it around a winch (of which I don’t have a spare winch for this purpose, anyway).
I’ve attached a photo showing the topping lift attached to the boom. Mine is 3/8" lo-stretch dacron.
This is a topic that I hope other sailors of bigger Nonsuches weigh in on.
Glad this topic came up. My new to me N36 is in need of a new topping lift and boom hangers. They’re pretty rusty. Both conform to the original specs, 1/4” (7x19) life line wire with nicro press eyes.
This seems a tad old school to me with all the sophisticated line around. Has anyone addressed this other than with wire?
Mike
Intuition N36
Ft. Pierce, Fl.
Same thoughts for me. The wire topping lift and boom hangers might be original vinyl covered wire. I will likely replace with Amsteel when I inspect and prep the mast for stepping in the spring. Have many you done this already? What size of Dyneema/Spectra did you use for this?
Doug
NS30 386
Toronto
I replaced mine with 70’ of 8mm Marlow Doublebraid. I can raise the wishbone by hand (without winch) with a four part tackle and the friction is reduced.
Having replaced most lines over the last few years, I found it helpful to get samples (8 to 10 inches from our local West Marine at no charge) to check campatibility with my winches. On one occasion I had to increase the diameter to get an adequate purchase on the winch.
Phil Harmeson
NS30U #295 Catharsis.
Traverse City, Michigan
I have heard of Dyneema being used in place of the steel cable for the topping lift. Heck, why not ? It’s plenty strong. But, I would then do what Paul Miller did and use double-braid for the actual working line and for a four or five part tackle.
Doug,
On most of the 30 Ultras, I believe the topping lift has two parts, a standing portion that runs from the mast head down the leech of the sail to with a few feet of the boom heel and the running portion going from two blocks just above the boom, along the boom, down the mast and back to the cockpit (the 324 essential used a second halyard as the topping lift). The manual refers to the running portion as the pennant. I can’t help you with the length either part other than to repeat what some of the others have said. The length required for the running portion will increase if you have increased the ratio of purchase, i.e. from 3:1 to 4:1. As Ernie pointed out some people have switch from coated wire rope to a Dyneema line for the standing portion. The high tech lines will likely be more gentle on the sail and lighter, but are more prone to chafe especially at the mast head. Since you live in Toronto and will take the mast down each year inspection will not be an issue. The Dyneema will likely have to changed more frequently due to UV deterioration unless it has a polyester cover. Boats would put the reefing crinkles on the leech of the sail higher up than what was called for in the manual. With the Botts sail I had to shorten the standing part of the topping lift so I could pull the boom high enough to put in the reef. That require a longer pennant. I do’t think it hurts to have the shorter standing line and longer pennant so you might consider that.
The Pennant
For the pennant Spectra or Dyneema should be a good choices ( https://rigworks.com/yacht-rigging-services-in-san-diego/running-rigging/dyneema-and-spectra-lines/ ). I have had difficulty finding Spectra line for sale in larger sizes and can’t find working loads for it. From what I can read Spectra is less subject to chafe than Dyneema. It does creep or elongate under constant load more, but that should not be an issue with the topping lift pennant. I would suggest you consider getting a line with Spectra or Dyneema core and polyester cover about 3/8" in dia total. The manual calls for 3/8" Dacron for the pennant which has is rated at about 4200 lbs while 3/8" covered Dyneema is rated at about 10,000 lbs. I find that 3/8" is about as small as is comfortable for my hands and usually works fine in the winches. You then strip the cover off the line except the portion running from the turning block at the base of the mast to the cockpit. The cover should stop just before the turning block when the topping lift is fully slackened off so the end of the cover does not go back and forth over the block. Stitch the cover to the core so it does not move. Taking the cover off will reduce friction along the boom but the cover will keep the line from slipping in the winch and will be easier to work with.
I’ve used Spectra for the fixed part of the topping lift for the past ten years without incident..
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
I just had sailing services through Defender make a new topping lift and wishbone supports for my N30. Dave at Sailing services their rigger has the specs on file bid # SO90468. I stuck with the original coated wire. I am just using some MLX from Samson for the tackle system.
About 10 years back a rigger replaced my cable topping lift with Dyneema. He made the mistake attaching the eye splice directly to the stainless pin in the masthead casting. When reaching and running the topping lift chafes on the casting. It was 90% worn through after one season. If you are going to swap out your topping lift cable I strongly recommend a heavy flexible stainless leader at the top.
I spliced a new topping lift and and boom hangers using 3/16’ dyneema last spring with locking brummel splices at both ends of everything.
To avoid chafing, I used a long 5/16" shackle at the masthead, with the pin inserted through the “U” portion of the shackle, and the dyneema eye splice luggage tagged to the pin of the shackle. The shackle extends the dyneema out beyond the casting, where it can rotate on the pin like a rigging toggle. Seizing the shackle with wire is mandatory. The splice at the other end is luggage tagged to another shackle for attachment to the purchase.
The boom hangers also have an eye splice at each end, and are luggage tagged directly to the padeyes on the mast, with the other ends luggage tagged to captive pin shackles for attachment to the boom. I use zip ties to keep the pins from backing out, since they are disconnected every fall anyway.
The only part of the topping lift I am still having trouble with, is the amount of twist induced in the line through use of the purchase. I’m not sure how this happens at the dead end of the purchase, but I had to de-rig it multiple times last season to work the twists out, whenever the blocks became so twisted it became unusable. Another topic for another day…
Regarding twist on the topping lift imparted by the blocks giving purchase to the adjustment line, I’ve had some success in reducing it with two things. FWIW.
First, rather than getting additional purchase using double blocks with the sheaves side by side rotating around the same axis, I think it’s important to use blocks that are effectively above-and-below, e.g., the Garhauer 30-02 or 40-02 series blocks.
Also, I put blocks on fixed rather than rotating shackles and made sure that the upper blocks deadended on the topping lift were aligned in parallel with the lower blocks on the boom end. I.e., if the lower blocks are oriented fore-and-aft, lock the upper one that way, too. If they’re aligned athwartships, align the top athwartships.
What happens – at least, my theory – is that any twist in the adjustment line get imparted through uneven pull on the upper block. You’d think that swivels would keep it in constant alignment. But, I suspect what goes on is the the strong downward forces create enough friction on the swivel so that it doesn’t really swivel fully, but can swivel when there’s no pressure, so it just ends up contributing. Side-by-side double blocks make that twisting force worse, because the way you have to run lines through a side-by-side double blocks inherently requires some twist because the line has to run from one side of one to the other side of the second.
For the upcoming season I was planning to try rearranging the purchase to either a 3:1 or 4:1 between the mast blocks and the front of the boom, pulling on dyneema with a 2:1 purchase at the bottom of the topping lift. I’ve measured the travel needed at the end of the boom, and it isn’t that much.
The choker is already cascaded to a 6:1, and adjusting any of these without a winch is faster and easier, so more purchase is better.
That’s a great idea Tim. I’ll add a 2:1 on the running part of the topping lift between the boom and the mast base making this new line a nice one to hold. I went down to a 1/4 inch running topping lift which worked well to reduce the friction but now is hard on the hands.
Also had the twisting problem at the blocks but it was solved by just tightening the tiny set screw in the block that is there to prevent it from swiveling. As they ship from the factory the set screw is there but not tightened. Try this first before you start rearranging the blocks and lines. The best arrangement of lines and blocks at the boom end is one with as little friction as possible.
Tom
26C #28
Penetang
Only about 80 days until splash.
