My Paloma water heater stopped heating water after 18 years of excellent service. In searching for a new water heater I’ve noticed that all but one, the Excel, state that their propane water haters must not be used on a boat. I’ve also noticed that the Excel does not have a pilot light and does not need to be vented due to some special device. For 18 years I’ve lit the pilot each time I’ve wanted hot water. Immediately after using I turn off the propane at the tank and let the pilot light burn all the propane in the line/hose. Same procedure when we use the stove. I’ve never used the Cat heater. So, why not another propane water heater with pilot light? If I purchase the Excel will it light when it has to “suck” propane from the tank due to my empty hose? Without a pilot light how can I burn up the propane in the hose which gives me the peace of mind that comes from not having any propane in the hoses? Are my precautions silly, crazy or simply not necessary?
Lots of questions… I’d appreciate hearing a few opinions, suggestions, ideas…
Thanks,
Bob McPeek
Pau Hana, NS30C
San Francisco Bay
Running the hot water tap activates the mechanism for firing up the heater. Just turn off the solinoid while running the final bit of water and you’ll burn the propane out of the lines.
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
The excel is a terrific unit.
The cat heater is also a terrific unit.
Leave the propane in your lines and enjoy both of them.
I do
Mark fagelman
N-33 PUFF
One other option is to go to a conventional 110 AC/engine unit. It’s always there when needed and you never have to do anything to make it work. I have photos of my installation if you’d like.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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Hi Joe,
I’m interested. Mine is a 30C. Where did you install the unit? How complicated, or perhaps simple, is the electrical connection, heat exchanger connection, and the plumbing? I’m attracted to one less propane line, and the convenience of hot water almost all the time.
Thanks,
Bob
Bob:
After such fine service, have you considered repairing your Paloma? It may cost less, entail less risk, and offer more satisfaction than switching to another water heater.
Richard Fried
Melita, NS36 #02
Marblehead, MA
Good morning Joe
I am aso interested in seeing pictures of the install. I removed the
Paloma from my boat this spring due to hearing and reading it is not
legal/allowable. I also understand that the rules now are that each
propane device must have a separate propane line running to it and my
boat had a T in the fuel tank locker area with one hose running to the
stove and one to the Paloma. I removed the old rusty steel tanks,
solenoid, pressure guage, hoses and T and ran a new single hose
directly to the stove from the new aluminum tank.
Since I repowered with the Beta 30, I now have the option of heating
the water with the engine. I did not have that with the Volvo MD 11C.
I was considering the port cockpit locker since the connections onthe
Beta are on the port side. I am considering a 6 gal tank. I do not
have shore power so I will not be connecting the 110 AC option.
To the best of my knowledge the Paloma still works although I never
used it since we only day sail the boat. It was connected to the water
system and there was not sign of leaking.
Thanks in advamce.
David
Spray 1981 30 C #93
South Dartmouth and Westport Point, MA.
Hi Joe;
Which 110v unit did you get, and where did you install it?
I would love to see photos.
Ed Collis
ORIOV V!!
NS30U
Toronto
Hi Bob,
As you can see, the choice depends more on your comfort level with propane, access to shore power and other concerns mentioned below.
We use an excel water heater and reconditioned cabin heater. The propane and carbon monoxide detectors provide safety, but shutting off the tanks adds another level. Hot water is available by just turning the tap. It would seem inconvenient to start and stop the engine each time we needed even a small amount of hot water, but that effort seems acceptable by many owners. I believe that having the propane devices turned on when the tanks are turned off would drain the lines. I notice, when doing this, that the flame decreases as the pressure is reduced.
For both safety and ease of use, the excel would seem one of the better choices. Of course nothing beats the use of shore power 110AC to heat water and cabin, but the use of house batteries to provide that power could be prohibitive. And if you don’t mind starting and stopping the engine a few times a day, then that source might be the best match for you. Having said that, if the engine will be running to provide hot water, you might also consider an engine driven compressor for your fridge as well.
Best,
Jim Falcon
Ballybay 1986 NS30U #357
Warren, RI
To all that expressed an interest: I had discussed this at length some years ago but can’t find the email. I’ll try again. I installed a Force 10 six gallon unit which fit just aft of the reinforcement bulkhead behind the engine. Different engines have different plumbing requirements. The W-27 has a factory bulletin on this. I will not go into detail and hope the photos show the basics. .002 shows the locker space I gained over the sink and the added vent by using the hole in the deck for another dorade box and funnel. .003 shows the hose connections on the W-27 (make sure you have a bleeder valve installed) .005 shows the unit attached to the bulkhead. .006 shows the connections. .007 the space above the unit and .008 a photo of the whole setup below. 009 shows the matching dorade and funnels on deck. Normally, I will have hot water in under ten minutes of the engine being at operating temperature or less then ten at the dock. If it takes you a half hour to get out to sail or 15 minutes to anchor, you’ll have plenty of water for the day. The water stays hot overnight and allows you to shower in the morning. In the winter if I haul out, I just open the valve and drain the tank. If you have more questions, just email me.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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The two attachments are the bulletins from Westerbeke concerning adding a water heater.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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(attachments)
W-27 Bulletin 114 Hot Water Htr pg1.pdf (724 KB)
W-27 Bulletin 114 Hot Water Htr pg2.pdf (453 KB)
I wish to thank all of you for your replies. I’ve decided to go with the Excel. However, I’m curious why Poloma and others state that these heaters must not be used on a boat. My old Paloma served me well for 19 years.
Bob McPeek
Pau Hana, NS30C
The Excel had safety features that your old Paloma did not. The Excel does not use a pilot light and it has an oxygen depletion sensor designed to shut the system down if there is not sufficient ventilation.
Still, it is critically important to make sure there is enough fresh air coming in. Especially in classic versions where the heater is mounted in the head.
I’m comfortable with propane. (My house and many others in Rhode Island were heated with propane.). But it has to be used with respect, care, and common sense. Some boaters lack the last quality and that can lead to tragedy.
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
Hi Jim,
Thank you for your reply. I’ve used my Paloma for 20 years with care and respect. I understand the risks of CO and propane’s tendency to collect in the bilge and explode. But I’m a super careful guy. Some people have used the word unlawful when referring to the Paloma, and some have referred to insurance problems. Are these exaggerations? Paloma says don’t install in a boat or RV. Are they just covering their rear end?
Hi Bob,
In a practical sense, it depends on your surveyor and insurance company. When I bought my NS26C in 2010, the surveyor noted the existence of the Paloma but neither he nor my insurer required me to remove it. I did eventually replace it with an Excel anyway. I think the Excel is safer.
When I bought my NS30U in 2012, the surveyor (and thus the insurance company) required the Paloma water heater be replaced. Different surveyor but same insurer for 2010 boat, BTW. I had the original Paloma ad from 1986 showing the company recommending its use on boats. But I guess their position has changed.
I think this concern over propane appliances is very uneven. I was not required to replace my Cozy Cabin propane heater. Nor was I required to replace the Hilderange stove–although I thought THAT was unsafe and I did replace it with a new Force 10.
Propane is dangerous…but so is boating. Use care and common sense. Avoid unnecessary risks.
Jim
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
I pulled out the Paloma Water heater after I dismantled most of my propane stove. After analyzing my shower use on board and the aging propane lines I opted for a Coleman Water heater as a replacement:
In hot water?
No installation and can be used in other locations to provide hot showers in situations like when a Hurricane or Ice Storm knocks out power at home.
[
In hot water?Bianka had an on demand Paloma hot water heater installed when I bought her. This came in very handy when I was … |
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG
[
THE BIANKA LOG BLOGAhoy! You have found BIANKA’s Blog Log site. BIANKA is the world’s first electric powered Nonsuch. Check… |
Hi Bob,
In a practical sense, it depends on your surveyor and insurance company. When I bought my NS26C in 2010, the surveyor noted the existence of the Paloma but neither he nor my insurer required me to remove it. I did eventually replace it with an Excel anyway. I think the Excel is safer.
When I bought my NS30U in 2012, the surveyor (and thus the insurance company) required the Paloma water heater be replaced. Different surveyor but same insurer for 2010 boat, BTW. I had the original Paloma ad from 1986 showing the company recommending its use on boats. But I guess their position has changed.
I think this concern over propane appliances is very uneven. I was not required to replace my Cozy Cabin propane heater. Nor was I required to replace the Hilderange stove–although I thought THAT was unsafe and I did replace it with a new Force 10.
Propane is dangerous…but so is boating. Use care and common sense. Avoid unnecessary risks.
Jim
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
When I bought my 30U last year the Paloma water heater was not working so after some research I replaced it with the Excel unit which has worked perfectly since and ignites quickly with hot water flow. It fit right into the space the Paloma had occupied and although it’s nominally ventless, it is vented via the vent the Paloma had used. I also installed new hose and a Xintex solenoid control with a bilge sniffer at the same time. The boat insurer has not expressed any concerned about the unit. The thing works so well I’ve even considered buying another to keep in storage against the day when the Excel, like the Paloma, gives up the ghost - hopefully at least a few years from now but who knows if the Excel will still be available then.
- John