Good evening All,
I’m a new member here at INA and in agreement on N26C #144 - survey hopefully later this week.
The boat’s in terrific shape and I’ve not too many questions (so far); however, the Paloma PH-53F water heater is something I’ve never laid eyes on before. Any suggestions what problems to look for and are they a practical item? If not, where do I stick the hot water heater over the winter? There’s also a propane wall heater installed, but no details on that yet.
Thanks, John
John the Paloma instant hot water heater is a huge plus . Ours is used every day we are on the water. Remember it must be winterized. I run antifreeze through it and also open the drain.
In Europe, domestic instant hot water heaters have been the norm for 50 years and now North American is catching on because of their frugal use of energy.
Bob Jenkins
Good News. 30U . #323
Aurora Ontario.
Bob, do you use plummers antifreeze or the regular?
Brian
Katmando, Ns30u
Whitby, Ontario..
I use Windshield Washer anti freeze.
It is cheaper.
Just run lots of fresh water through your system in spring.
Ed Collis
ORION VII
Toronto
That’s a good idea if the windshield washer fluid protection goes down far enough.
I had a Wolter and used the potable marine anti-freeze one year. It turned the plastic coating on the magnet which trips the reed switch to enable to propane to flow. After that I used the potable to winterize the water system, except for the water heater, which I drained. I used an “L” shaped connector to join the in & out hoses to the water heater so the water would still flow through the rest of the system.
More than one was to skin a Nonsuch.
Joe Tierney, (formerly Allegro, 1992 NS33 #64), Annapolis, MD
In an effort to bring my boat’s propane system up to code, for $150 I ordered the Excel tankless water heater directly from Excel (http://www.excelamerica.com/calentadores_eng.htm). These heaters do not have a pilot light. Even though this is billed as ventless, I found it easier to leave the existing vent in place and construct a wood spacer to line the heater up with the vent. I’m very happy with the results.
That’s an incredible deal but I just checked and they are now out of stock. Hopefully they will offer more at the same price.
Jamie Morrison
Dexterity II
30U 225
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Regarding anti-freeze, windshield washer fluid is just that - FLUID (mostly soap and some anti-freeze and it tastes like soap and anti-freeze). And… some of it is real crap that will not protect ANY plumbing from freezing.
As I will be drinking it’s residue (sadly), I would use the best quality POTABLE RV or plumber’s anti-freeze that a few bucks will buy (whatever brand that may be depending on where you are).
Cheers
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi Ernie;
I get mine at Canadian Tire. It is winter fluid, and rated at -50.
I have a T joint in my water lines and run it through all hot and cold lines and out of all taps.
Just run water until clear water comes from all taps in spring. And then run some more.
Unlike yourself, i have not yet actually tasted it, but I assume that it tastes terrible. LOL
Cheers,
Eddy
ORION VII
Toronto
Plumbing antifreeze.
Bob Jenkins
There are two types of antifreeze… one is for potable water and one is for the raw water system including the heat exchanger. Check the container for recommendations for use. One is not recommended where there is aluminum.
Our Paloma heater was replaced the an Excel by the previous owner.. when I bought the boat the surveyor told me that the Paloma was no longer recommended for marine use and there had been two reported deaths due to malfunction. I know lots of people love them. Do your own research an make up your own mind… I usually find that any three sailors usually have five opinions.
Paul Robson 30U
On my first Nonsuch (26C) I replaced the Paloma with an Excel because the Paloma was not working. Loved the Excel! You do want to be careful to make sure there is sufficient ventilation because it's in the head. On my second, and current, Nonsuch (30U) the Paloma was working fine but the surveyor made me remove it because of the pilot light. So, I replaced it with an Excel--which does not have a pilot light and does have an oxygen depletion sensor.
The Paloma does not strike me as any more dangerous than the oven, and perhaps less so because it is vented. But, the Excel does have additional safety features. They have been selling the Excels at that price for a few years now, so I hope the out of stock situation is just temporary.
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
To John Phillips,
Please excuse the way this post looks. I am new to INA and I am having a hard time figuring out how to properly address my question to the person I wish to communicate with.
I have also installed an Excel water heater. I don’t understand what you mean by “construct a wood spacer to line the heater up with the vent”. When I removed the old Poloma heater (located above the galley sink) the vent stack that goes through the deck remained. the funnel like duct that connected the Poloma to the vent that goes through the deck was connected to a part of the Poloma. I was able to mount the Excell using two of the three mounting holes. I had to drill one new hole through the bulkhead. The heater works great. It discharges a lot of heat through the top of the unit. Even with the existing vent opening through the deck above the unit a lot of heat builds up in the cabinet that the heater partially goes through. I am concerned if this is a problem and if the heat build up under the deck In the area of the through deck vent is a potential problem. I have been thinking of constructing some type of “funnel” duct to cover the top of the heater and thereby direct the exhaust heat through the existing vent in the deck.
Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
BEST REGARDS,
Narcy Dubicki
White Eagle
Nonsuch 30 U 1988
Waterford,Ct.
Narcy,
First let me say I have a Nonsuch 30 classic. My Paloma heater was mounted on the aft wall above the head.
When I exchanged the Paloma for the Excel, I didn’t want to drill any additional holes. In addition, the Excel is thinner or simply mounted closer to the wall. The solution was to mount a board or plaque to the wall using the existing holes. Then I took the plaque down and mounted it to the Excel heater. Then mounted the complete assembly back to the wall. This let me avoid any new holes in the wall and moved the heater further away from the wall and directly under the existing vent.
I hope this helps you understand my installation. I can send pictures when I remove the shrink wrap from around the boat in the spring.
John Phillips
S/V Whalewind - www.whalewind.com
Nonsuch 30 C, #16
Ottawa, Ontario
John,
Thanks for the reply. I now understand your installation. On my boat (30 ft ultra) the heater is located over the galley sink. Your solution was very imaginative. I could have avoided the one new hole I had to drill in my case
If anyone has the old Paloma exhaust vent system, I would be interested in buying it for my N26C. Hope there isn’t a difference between the 26 and the 30. When I bought my N26C, the water heater was removed and there was a rouns SS plate installed. Regards, Bob Horne
1989, #249, N26C, ENCORE
P.S. Currently in TX, 830-755-8851, but sail at Pocasset, MA, Cape Cod during the simmer (5 months)
Narcy:
I have a 30U and I replaced the Paloma with the Excel. I removed the overhead cowling from the Paloma and the louvered vent from the Excel, mounted the cowling over the Excel and ran aluminum (clothes dryer exhaust) duct between the top of the cowling and the existing vent through the deck. Works like a charm and sends the heat and the moisture from the propane exhaust out of the boat. Pics if you want them.
Bob Hutton
Hoonah, AK
Hi John;
Do you need to actively vent the unit with a fan blowing the gasses through the deck vent?
Ed Collis
NS30U
ORION VII
Hi Bob;
This Excel replacement sounds like a good idea.
I would love to see the photos.
Incidently, have you heard of the Ecotemp L5 ?
Ed Collis
ORION VII
NS30U
Toronto
What about CO2 in the cabin without a fully vented heater?