I am curious to know what PHRF rating a 30c with a 3 blade fixed prop carries. Mine on Lake. Ontario in at 162 which is the same as a CS 32 and a Catalina 34. I guess this message would be directed to LONA members primarily. Thank you
Tom Beilein
Crackling Rose #318
Olcott, NY
PHRF NE Base Rating
NONSUCH 30 177
NONSUCH 30 SD 186
3 blade solid +9
Fran Cichowski
Southpaw N30U #300
Noank, CT
On Lake Murray mine is 186 but I have shoal draft
It would be 180 regular not shoal draft
I have a feathering prop but I would add 6 for a fixed 3 blade prop
In North Carolina, my PHRF is 180 with folding prop and shallow draft.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
With eastern Connecticut sailing sssociation a 30 is rated 183 non shoal draft
Bill Wigglesworth
Bananaquit 30U 360
Noank CT
ChatGPT says it typically falls within 174 to 198 depending on regional adjustments and specific boat configurations.
Dan Mills
Sakina NS30U 460
Solomons, MD
dm/dc/usa
Wow! Thats interesting a 24 seconds per mile spread. There must be a few tricked out Nonsuches out there. If you can believe AI.
Brian Cayer
Spirit-Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT
In British Columbia in the Vancouver area a 30U is rated at 193 and as raced 201. A second 30U has a slightly harder rating.
Mark Powers
Brian,
24 seconds sounds like a lotā¦ but 9 sec for fixed prop and 9 sec for shoal draft explains 18 sec of the adjustment. These are pretty standard.
Iād say local conditions and race format can justify the remaining 6 second variation.
I know Iād rather race a triangle than a windward/leeward against a Catalina. Our boats are difficult handicap because the design is outside the norm.
The handicapper job is a thankless one.
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
My Nonsuch 30U was assigned a rating of 159.
Will OāHara
La Balena
Mimico Cruising Club
Toronto, Canada
Anybody PHRF race with a spinnaker or blooper. What do they do with that?
I am sorry, I keep forgetting
S/V Spirit NS30C
Lake Murray, South Carolina (Near Columbia)
My recollection is people have tried but it wasnāt worth the hit on the PHRF rating.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
I have a blooper, it is really not all that big and would not justify the rating hit.
Bruce Clark
N30 āNonsuchā
Whitby YC , Lake Ontario
Couple have thoughts. PHRF was designed to handicap boats of similar design and size. A 65 foot and 30 foot are not going to correct out. A 35 foot hunter and 30 foot Catalina ok. A Nonsuch 30 and a C&C 30 no.
Each āregionā will adjust ratings based in experience over time. Some regions are more diligent some less so .
A Nonsuch will owe time to everyone. I was giving time to Mirage 30ās as I recall. Using a blooper will put you in spinacker class and you can not fly a blooper over about 9 knots apparent plus the time to douse and raise the main makes it impossible.
Where we had good success was on long distance races that were not dominated by windward legs. Long enough for competition to make mistakes.
In light air you will struggle . In anything over 20 knots youāll do well as most racers hate to reef and pay the penalty.
Jack Lombard in the Long Island group did some excellent work in developing rating for the Off Sounding Series . Iād get in touch with him Iām sure he can assist.
I did bolt a roller fearler to my Sampson post and delemaded a 6 second credit. The PHRF measurer didnāt want to give me the credit as it was not connected but I did point out to hime there was nothing in the rules saying I had ti actually use it.
T
Thor
I had the pleasure to meet Jack Lombard, when I first brought my boat into the boat yard at Westbrook. He was gracious enough to help me move my boat to a different slip. We had a good conversation and everything worked out well. Very gracious man havenāt seen them lately. I hope I do so soon.
Brian Cayer
Spirit~Wind
N30U 419
Westbrook, CT
Well said Thor. Nonsuches and Wylie cats give PHRF committees nightmares since they donāt sail by the usual rules of Bermudian sloops. My gaff rig has added to their problems. Mascouche with the standard wishbone rig with a Botts sail and folding three blade prop had a rating of 249 on Lake Ontario. After I converted to a smaller gaff sail, the PHRF committee could not decide on how to rate me for over a year and in the end came up with a 100 which is very flattering but likely unachievable although when conditions are right she will give any yacht a run for her money on a windward leg. The photo taken from Mascouche shows the fleet on the windward of a Club TGIF. We were second around the leeward buoy and had established a substantial lead by the end of the windward leg.
As far as bloopers and spinnakers are concerned, California PFRF committees ruled that Nonsuches and Wylie cats have to compete in the spinnaker classes regardless of their intention to fly a spinnaker or blooper or not. The Nonsuch rig is more efficient than a standard spinnaker since one can increase the pressure differential between the windward and leeward side of the sail while on the run. The choker needs to be eased and the mainsheet long enough to allow the boom to go past 90 degrees.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C1
Toronto
According to Lona Rules https://www.phrf-lo.org/images/Documents/HandicappersManual_ClassRules.pdf
You should be allowed 15 seconds a mile for a fixed three blade prop. 162 sounds very tough and I wonder if they have allowed for the fixed prop. A quick search of the LO site indicates your 2024 certificate was 176, did they change it on you? With a search, AI suggests the numbers generally run 168 to 186 for your area. What did your sail measure in at?
A bit of an update, also Lake Ontario. There are two N30s racing in Whitby with PHRFs of 163. This didnāt make much sense so I did some research and looked at ratings from Nova Scotia to Northern California. Nonsuches do better with some wind, but Lake Ontario is not very windy in the summer, similar to Chesapeake Bay and Long Island Sound. Northern California has N30s at 174 which does make sense because it is windier there. Everywhere else is in the 180 range +/-. I talked to the LO PHRF handicappers, who are all volunteers of course, and there attitude was very much we are right and everyone else is wrong. They do their due diligence and other regions just copy Lake Ontario. Of course, Lake Erie is at 180 so they hardly copy Lake Ontario. They say they do not look at ratings in other regions.
What is particularly silly is that they rate the N30 as faster than a N33 or N36. If I were to go through the Welland Canal (20 miles) my 163 would still be used against the LE 180, because that is what my certificate says.
āNonsuchā, Sail #1
Whitby YC, Lake Ontario
Nobody asked but my PHRF on Lake Erie is 260, however, Sheās not a 30 but a 22!
Johnny Gee
Tourmaline NS22 #8
Bolles Harbor, MI
