Number two on the repair list. I just got the platinum cat heater back from being rebuilt and now it is time to change out the propane lines. I still have one the line with the X that feeds all three units. My understanding is it must now be 3 separate lines. Has anyone already replaced the lines? Can you recommend what lines and lengths to use on a U30? How are the line terminated/valved by the tank etc?
Thanks
Peter Farley
Knot in a Hurry U30 #328
Keyport NJ
Yes, by code, each device has to have it’s own dedicated line to the tank with the appropriate valves, gauges etc. You’ll have to guesstimate the proper lengths.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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What size line does the CAT heater take?
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Peter - I replaced all of the lines in 2014 when I had a leak I could not fine, so I pulled everything out. I had Brewer’s in Glen Cove, New York on Long Island do the work (I wanted it done by a pro given the boom potential with a mistake, and I figured the insurance company and any future purchaser would appreciate a professional install). I had the yard assemble a manifold that is attached to the port side of the propane locker that allows me to turn off the gas to each appliance separately - should make trouble shooting in the future easier and I just feel more comfortable turning off to supply to appliances not in use - primarily the cat heater. And if I have a leak in one of the lines, I can turn it off and still use the other appliances. The manifold takes space up in the locker, resulting in us only being able to have one tank in the locker, not a problem for us. We use some of that space to mount a fire extinguisher, giving us one above deck.
I unfortunately do not know the lengths of the separate lines - the bill lumps them, the end fittings, and the manifold all together with one price. If you are going to have someone assemble the lines with the end fittings, make sure they will fit through the sealing gland that is required on each line exiting the propane locker.
We also installed a Trident sniffer system. If you don’t have one, you might want to consider such. We used the original relay switch to power on the system, saving the need to run a line to the breaker board (which does not have room for another breaker in any event). The sniffer panel is immediately aft of the stove just above the book shelf on our 30U.
The code also requires a gasket/seal on the lid. We have not done such yet, but may this spring - just have to figure out what size a gap I need to bridge and then glue the material to the inside of the lid. If anyone has done this little project, I would appreciate info on what you used and what size of material.
All of our appliances take the same size hose. Our water heater had a different intake thread then the stove and cat heater, necessitating an adapter. Not kosher with the code, but then the water heater itself is frowned upon as it is.
If you want a picture of the manifold, I can supply one.
lloyd herman
Rendezvous, 1987 30U
Port Washington, New York
Any pictures would be great. I am think about replacing the water heater with excel while I am doing all this.
https://excelonlinestore-container.zoeysite.com/tankless-gas-water-heater-1-6-gpm-lpg-propane-ventfree-copper-heat-exchanger-231
Peter,
I’m on my second Excel unit. The first did not like to stay lit. After talking the company reps (who were very responsive), it was determined that the problem was the water pressure was not high enough to consistently trigger the heater. In the time since I bought the first unit, Excel redesigned the unit and created a new model that is much less sensitive to the water pressure. I put the new model in and it works great. I could not be happier. The model you linked to is different from either of the two units I had/have. You might want to ask about the water pressure issue.
Jim Cosgrove
FATE 30U #343
Galesville, MD
Hi Peter,
I own Nonsuch 33 #8. I am also a licensed master gasfitter and pipefitter in Massachusetts and Connecticut.
I followed the link to the Excel on-line store then to Tankless On Demand Gas Water Heater VentFree - Perfect for RVs.
There are no products currently listed on the web page under that category.
The heater is billed as vent free. Vent free appliances discharge their products of combustion to the area in which they are installed. This can create the rapid production of carbon monoxide within the confined cabin of a Nonsuch. If this heater is actually available, please get a copy of the installation instructions prior to purchase to insure that the products of combustion are vented to the exterior of the boat and that you can satisfy the required clearances to combustible materials.
The installation instructions for the original propane fired water heaters installed on these boats clearly indicate " Do not install this appliance in a recreational vehicle or boat". The way these heaters were installed on the 30U boats did not allow proper clearance to combustibles as the sides and maybe the front of the heater were directly against the wood of the upper cabinet in the galley. The vent hood was in the cabinet. With the cabinet closed, the vent hood is in a potentially different pressure zone than the gas burner - not allowed. Gas appliances with vent hood also require a minimum rise of 5 feet from the draft hood outlet to the top of the vent. This is to allow production of draft to remove the products of combustion. I expect that there is a lot of spillage of combustion products into the cabin with these heaters as the vent height as installed is a foot +/-.
I believe the proper water heater for a Nonsuch is a listed marine water heater. These are typically tank type and are heated by 110V electricity and engine cooling water. My 33 had been converted to a marine water heater by a previous owner. The heater works great and heats up quickly with the heat from the engine cooling water. The bonus is ABYC allows this marine water heater. Safe!
I’ve never regretted replacing the demand gas heater with a conventional engine/110VAC water heater back in ‘03 when I purchased the boat..
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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We spend the season on a moorings either our own or through out Long Island Sound.
We will spend a few days at a mooring so 110 or running the motor on the mooring to heat the water is not really an option for us.
The current heater works but has a standing pilot light. So the process is
NS26C and propane
Here’s a pic of the propane locker of our new-to-us NS26C.
I’ve been going though everything, but propane not yet, so can’t tell you 100% about the lines.
Anyway, the cockpit locker.
Three yellow handled shutoff valves. L-R
You can see the solenoid, and the pressure valve, after the solenoid, so leaks can be better discovered.
What we don’t have is a propane/carbon monoxide/smoke detector(s).
Tanks were rectified in 2007 - needs doing again (or, replace them)
Anyway, I’m sure the propane setup is not original, as it is a 1982 boat. It looks well done.
John
NS26C lying Kingston ON.
Hi Peter,
It sounds like you are operating the propane water heater as safely as possible.
How do you charge your batteries?
A marine water heater remains hot for hours after the engine is stopped.
Peter;
Your procedure sounds safe. I would like to suggest you add one more step. Close the valve at the propane tank in the propane locker when not using a propane appliance.
Our insurance company is aware that our boat does not meet current codes, no valves, fittings or connections inside the boat except at the propane appliance. Which means a separate line from the locker to each appliance. Our boats met codes at the time of construction.
So, to get around that our insurance policy stipulates that the gas must always be shut off at the tank except when we are using one of the propane appliances.
In addition to the steps you are taking I have been doing this since we bought our boat, 6 years ago. It has become an automatic task for me and not a bother. Best thing to do is replace the lines and bring the system up to code as you are doing.
Regards;
…..Ed
Ed and Marlene Brost
SaSeaCat N30U 322
Sarnia Ontario
Not to get off the original request on this thread but since you asked. We have solar panels for the house bank which is two group 31 AMG batteries. We keep that separated from the starting battery with a 1, 2 and both switch set to 2 always. Then we have a combining relay when the motor is running to charge all 3 without having to change the switch. We also have a blue sea battery monitor and a display on the solar controller to track the usage. In the summer we can get a few days without needing to start the motor. Depends on how busy the isotherm cool plate is working. This all came about after running all the batteries down because the switch as set to both.
This may follow an empty post .... sorry.
I have recently redone just about all my plumbing so I’ll add a couple more pictures. I first replaced my propane lines because they weren’t up to code and then also replaced my fresh water system with pex so you will see both in the first photo. The plumbing in my locker is a little different than the other posted pic but accomplishes the same thing. You can see two lines leaving high on the port side. The other leaves high on the stbd. The two running on the port side go to the stove and the Excel heater (yes me too) and the one on the stbd side goes to a Dickenson heater.
BTW, on the topic of the fresh water plumbing, I took out ~120’ of vinyl hose and put in ~ 64’ of pex.
I need to get used to this forum. My photos seem to have posted in reverse order and I neglected to sign off.
Paul M
NS30U #211 Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
That looks like a real proper job Paul. I see a couple sensors in the picture, one above and one below, i imagine that is for a gas detection system of some sort. Can you provide details on what system that is?
Will B
N30C #181 Z Fat Cat
Bainbridge Island, WA
Hi Peter,
I installed an Excel water heater when I did the refit on my N30U and even though it is self-venting we installed a hood over it attached to a chimney through the existing opening in the deck above. The excel water heater works great. Now I did install a low-flow faucet in the head to restrict water use and the excel doesn’t light when we use that sink. Like Jim in NVa said it requires a certain amount of water pressure to light the heater. However it works just fine when we use the galley sink and the shower.
Cheers!
Jim Krzyzewski
Toyger N30U #422
Port Ludlow WA
I repalced the sensor just because I wasn’t sure about the old one. The new one is from Electro Systems (photo).
I also used the old Paloma chimney to vent my Excel. As luck would have it when I mounted the Excel using two of the three old holes, the space between the top of the Excel and the bottom of the chimney was a perfect friction fit for a standard 8”X 4” household heating register boot. No need for fastenings.
The photo showing the register boot was before the pex installation. The other shows the pex (cover off obviously)
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay B.C.
