Looks like the first reef line is run to the second reef cringle…
Okay we are into year two of sailing (due to extended river flooding we did not sail at all last year) and I still cannot get the reef to look right.
I am convinced that the blocks on the boom for the outboard reefs need to be moved.
Can anyone tell me how far behind the reef cringle the cheek blocks are supposed to be?
Tim -
I have 2 outta-the-box thoughts -
Take a real good look at your boom to see if there are any telltale holes or filled holes that might indicate that a previous owner actually moved either of the cheek blocks to their present location. For that matter, the pad eyes (wrong term, maybe - sorry - I mean the little brackets where you tie the reef line to the boom, on the other side of the cheek block) on the opposite side of either of the cheek blocks should be at the same distances from the clew as the cheek blocks are. Unless, the boat has a newer or different boom from the factory original, it strikes me as almost impossible that a boom would have left the shop with these blocks in a location that differed from all of the others. I do not buy that.
The other thing is that getting a nice crisp looking reef depends on all kinds of variables - tension of the choker, possibly the position of the topping lift, the tension of the luff, etc. Somehow, I don’t think that you’ve achieved the correct “synchronicity ??” here. In plain English, something is out of whack and I don’t think that you have to move hardware in order to fix it. I think it’s a matter of adjustment.
On a dead calm day, with the boat in it’s slip or head to wind on its mooring or at anchor (in really calm conditions), take all the time in the world to fiddle with the sail using a combination of whatever adjustment factors you have … until that 1st and then 2nd reef look good. Do this under conditions where you are NOT caught, out there in real wind, where you must reef quickly.
As I think about, try hauling the boom “a little too high” with the topping lift then, when your reef is set, gently lower the T/L and see if it looks right. I have enclosed a shot of my NS22 with BOTH reefs in (it works - undo the 2nd reef and you slip into the 1st). I’m not doing this to illustrate a “perfect” reef. No such luck, Ernie, but … look how tight the topping lift is !! It’s actually TOO tight to sail but this shot reminds me of how much I rely on the T/L to take the pressure off of the sail so’s I can pull, like hell, on the reefing lines. THEN, when all is set, slack off that T/L and let the sail assume it’s designed shape.
My thoughts.
Good luck,
Ernie A. in Toronto
Tim,
I think Ernie is right. Perhaps you would like to have the blocks more aft to increase the efficiency of the choker. The horizontal distance between the cheek bock and the mast needs to be clearly longer than that between the cringle and the mast. If you see it from the side, the reefing line between the cheek block and the cringle should not be too vertical when the sail is lowered for the reefing.
Did you try to pass your reefing line from the first reef check block to the second reef cringle ? If this works better, it may indicate that the reefing cringles should be placed higher by the sail maker, reducing the distance between the cringles and the mast. Evidently, this will also reduce a larger surface of the sail when reefing.
Good luck,
Roger Mongeau
NS22 #27, 27° Celcius
Magog, Canada
Tim -
Any chance of snapping a few photos of your sail when reefed ?? Perhaps if you raise and reef your sail while docked, you can get some shots and we can all see what is not working (or, might actually BE working).
Ernie A. in Toronto
Tim, looking at your picture it appears as though the line for the first reef at the mast is going through the 2nd reef cringle. If this is the case, rerun the reefing line through the lower 1st reef cringle. This will allow the sail to be raised more to its proper height. I think you’ll find that the sail will then set properly and that all the reefing tackle is in fact in the proper location.
Ron
Ron & Diane Schryver
“Alpha Waves” 1987 NS30U #393
Georgian Bay Midland ON
I tend to agree with Ron. I’ve come across this on more then one Nonsuch
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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Hi Ron -
Ernie A. here. Right under your post, you show a photo (Inked2nd reef_LI.jpg) and mention “looking at your picture it appears as though the line for the first reef at the mast is going through the 2nd reef cringle etc., etc.”
IF that is the photo you refer to, you are mistaken. THAT photo is one of MY sail with (hope you are sitting down) BOTH reefs tied in - Wow !! Looking at the photo (with all of the scribbling on it) now, yes, it does look a bit goofy. However, the reefs are all in the right place. It was windy, that day. I put in the 1st reef before leaving the dock (I do that a lot). Off I went. it really started to blow. So, without shaking out the 1st reef, I just put in the 2nd. It worked absolutely perfectly. My boat is an NS22. Maybe, due to sail design, one cannot commit this sacriledge on a larger Nonsuch - I do not know.
Eventually, the wind eased a bit and I shook out the 2nd reef. I sailed with the undisturbed 1st reef. It got calmer and I shook out the 1st reef and sailed with full sail.
It all worked. I’ve, since, done that a lot. I inserted the photo originally to show Tim what a not-too-messy 2nd reef should look like.
Sorry if my post was confusing in the first place, though.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Today we went to the harbor to figure this out. We took up the weight of the wishboom with the topping lift, loosened the chocker all the way, shortened the clew connection to within 3" of the casting, pulled the 1st reef tack tight, raised the sail pulling the halyard tight, and hauled in the 1st outboard reef cringe as tight as I could get it. The cringe seemed to be almost back even with the 2nd reef block and about 22" or so above the wish boom. Here are the photos. Please critique.
I am stumped.
Tim.
When I go to the boat tomorrow I will try to remember to take measurements of the location of the reefing line blocks.
When you go to reef lift up on the topping lift until the two blocks are almost touching. You can’t lift the boom with the reef line so you must get the boom as high as you can with the topping lift. Then once you have the tack reef line tight and you have hardened the halyard pull in on the leech reef line until it is about 1 ‘ to 1.5’ above the boom. Then ease off the topping lift until it is completely slack. Then harden the choker. At that point the sail should be holding the weight of the boom not the topping lift.
In the last two photos it looks like the topping lift is still tight. If it is it will stop the choker from flattening the sail.
When you have the opportunity I suggest that you measure your sail. Length of foot. Height of each leech and tack reef cringle above the foot of the sail. Do this by measuring from the tack and the clue up to the reef cringles. Also the distance from the tack reef cringle to the corresponding leech cringle. I can the pull out my Botts sail and we can make a comparison. My Botts sail is about 9 seasons old so it should be close to original measurements.
When you do the measurements pull the sail snug but measure on a straight line. Don’t try to follow the curve of the sail cloth.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.
Tim -
The only thing that I can say is that it appears, from the photos, that your 1st outboard reef line is, indeed, running through the correct hardware but looks like it is passing through (and yanking down) the 2nd reef cringle of your sail. It’s as if your 1st reef cringle has been missed.
Am I right ??
Ernie A. in Toronto
No Ernie that is the 1st reef cringle, the 2nd reef cringe would be almost at mid boom.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
On my c26 with sail laying in stackpack, first reef cringle is 3ft from clew and 2nd reef cringle is about 6ft from clew under no pressure other than hand straightening for furling.
The old sail that came with the boat had 3 reefs which I learned after rigging to the 1st and 3rd inadvertently.
Joe
SEA HORSE
I would love to see a photo of the sail all the way up so that all the cringles on the luff and also the ones for the clue are visible.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
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I will try to get a better shot the next time I am at the boat. I did find these two old photos. One was the day we bent on the sail for the first time. The second photo shows the two reef cringles, but not the clew.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
How utterly bizarre, Tim -
It’s almost as if your 1st OUTBOARD reef cringle is where the 2nd should be and the 2nd is where the 3rd should be. My instant gut reaction is to question your sail. Does it conform to the page in your owners manual that discusses sail dimensions for an NS 26 ??
Granted, my boat (and sail) are smaller than yours but I’ve attached the page out of my owners manual that discusses the placement of reefing cringles (and damn near everything else) on an NS 22..
I would not move hardware on the boom or placement of reefing lines until I was certain that your cringles were, indeed, in the right place (or, just possibly, that your sail is not the proper size - you never know). That said, it wouldn’t be a big deal to have a local sailmaker insert two cringles in the “right place”. (Or, you could wait until Xmas and just check with …yup … Kris Kringle.) OK - BAD JOKE.
I’ve also attached a couple of photos showing what my two outboard reefs look like. They certainly aren’t perfect but things seem to line up well (until one of my knots lets go and the line wraps around the prop without me being aware of same - THAT was an interesting day on the water).
Anyway, I’d check that sail. Just possibly, it is not quite the right size or … ??
Good luck.
Ernie A. in Toronto
My boat isn’t a 26 either but my first reaction to your picture was the same as Ernie’s. Looks like a second and third but no first leach cringle.
Paul M
NS30U #211, Sandpiper
Cowichan Bay, B.C.
Tim -
I just peeked at the 2 latest shots that you posted (the old ones). Rest assurred that it isn’t something that “YOU are smoking”. In my opinion, it was something that the sailmaker “was smoking”.
It just doesn’t look kosher at all.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Ernie, my 22 manual was missing that page.
Joe
C26