Thanks Ernie and Paul,
I am starting to feel better, although I am still not sure of the solution(s). The Sail was made in Halifax for the previous owner, maybe they like their reefs a bit deeper up there.
I will take some measurements next time and compare them to the ones in the book:
REEF 1 CLEW 6’-5". TACK 9’-0"
REEF 2 CLEW 13’-2". TACK 17’-5"
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Here a pic of mine, again not a 26, but look at the reef positions relative to the size of the sail.
I don’t want to be a pest, but I do have another reefing question. The dimensions given in the manual for REEF 1 TACK, and REEF 2 TACK, are those dimension taken along the leech, or are they vertical dimensions?
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Unless I’m mis-reading what you’re asking, the tack is where you secure the luff not the leech of the sail usually at or somewhere near the base of the mast.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (_ ~ (_ ~ (_ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (_ ~ (_ ~ (_~ ~ ~ ~
Interesting Ernie,
I have 2 manuals for the 26, one came with the boat, and a slightly different version I downloaded from where, I have forgotten. Both similar, but neither with the info you showed. So off to INA, and there was a 26 manual with the same type of info regarding the sail, and many more things of interest! So now I have 3 manuals. Pays to keep looking, I guess.
Carl Linkinhoker
NS26C, 146, Break of Day
Mayfield, NewYork
Oops! Thanks Joe. Sorry guys, my senility must be kicking in. What I meant to ask was whether the dimensions given in the manual for the clew reef points are measured vertically or along the leech. My copy of the manual gives 6’-5" for the 1st reef and 13’-2" for the second reef. I will measure ours when the weather permits, bu try guess it that, here in inland waters, we will never need the 2nd reef which seems to be half way up the leech.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Tim,
I measured from the joint between the boom tube end and the casting. It is 20 1/2” from the joint to the centre of the first reef block sheave. It is 57” from the joint to the centre of the second reef sheave.
Let me know if you want to measure the positions of the cringle on the sail.
The photo you attached looks like you have a second and third reef cringles.
Mark Powers
La Reina 26C
Vancouver, B.C.
Tim
Careful, if you are using the N26U manual (this info isn’t in the 26C manual that I could find) I believe the dimensions for the reef eyes in the sail are right but clew and tack are backwards.
This photo of my 20 year old Botts sail, you can see where the eyes are. The 4 battens in the leech are equally spaced. If Leech is 42.5 feet it means the battens are 8.5 feet so the first reef eye at the leech up from the clew at 9’ makes sense.
One way to double-check your measurements on reef tack and clew placement is to remember that (the following quote is from a guide to Nonsuch sailing you can find on the INA website at https://nonsuch.org/resources/Documents/General%20PDFs/Sailing%20a%20Nonsuch%20Cat%20Boat%20ver%202.pdf):
“The Nonsuch sail has two relatively shallow reefs. The first reef reduces the sail are by approximately 36%; the second reef reduces the sail area by an additional 31%. Therefore under a double reef, the [total] sail area has been reduced by approximately 67%.”
The specified sail area for a N26 is 420 sq. ft. Thus, the placement of your first reef tack and clew (sometimes referred to as forward and aft first reefs) should give you about 268.8 sq feet of sail above them. The second reef tack and clews (aka forward and aft second reefs) should give you about 138.6 sq. ft. above the points.
Because the sail’s not a perfect right triangle, there’s a little work in figuring this out, but approximating it as one is probably good enough to do a quick check.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
Hi Tim -
If I were you … I’d be in St. Louis, eating a cheap, good steak at the “Steak Nazi”, right across the street from the fabulous Fox Theater.
Regarding your sail, here is my thought:
Summer is flying by and, unless you take the sail down and … and … etc., reef “strangely” or just don’t reef. When it’s that sad time for many of us, take the sail down and take it to your local sailmaker armed with the 2 proper mesasurements for the aft reef points taken from the middle of the clew on the sail to the middle of both both aft reef cringles.
With ALL due respect to “various editions” of owners’ manuals including the one with the backwards info … I wouldn’t trust them. Also, I wouldn’t break my head doing all of the calculations (even though I am certain that they are absolutely valid). I would wait it out, play dumb and ask/cajole/bribe (with you-know-what)/ beg/ demand/hope for guys like Mark Powers, Carl Linkinhoker, Tom Schoenhofer, Ted Eedson, Thor Powell or the host of other veteran NS26 sailors to measure this length that you need the next time that they take their sail down. You may find that, overwhelmingly, these measurements are very close, from boat to boat ,and it may be really helpful.
That said, I am certain that all of your hardware is on the boom in the correct place and that the sailmaker in Halifax screwed up big-time and put those reef cringles in seriously bogus locations.
That’s what I would do !! It’s not a big fix and, guaranteed, it’s the sail that’s out.
Best of luck,
Ernie A. in Toronto
Thanks Ernie, Bob, Tom and Mark,
I think Ernie’s idea seems best to me at the moment. There are too many variations right now from 20 1/2" up to 9 feet. I had always read that each reef should take in about 10 to 12% of sail area, that would match the 20 1/2" dimension. The 9’ would match the 36%.
Perhaps the difference of 12% to 36% is because the Nonsuch main is not a conventional main, but more like a Genoa ?
I hope to get to the boat soon and get all pertinent dimensions.
There are no abandoned holes in the boom, so I assume that the boom is correct and the sail is suspect.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Are you referring to my idea of “picking up a slab at the Steak nazi” ??
The truth is, Tim, I forgot one important detail. Whichever kind member comes to your aid with the measurements that I suggested, that member, ideally, should provide measurements for the sail - leach, luff and straight foot (mast to clew or tack to clew) and, of course, what are the measurements from tack cringle to 1st and 2nd TACK reef cringles as well as well as clew reef cringles.
I’ll bet that some sails are not quite the same sizes as others. If the reef measurements can be messed up, so can the overall dimensions.
This way, you truly can compare your sail with another.
Cheers,
Ernie A. in Toronto
Here are the cringle measurements from the tack and clew for the sail Mack Sails just made for me
First reef
luff 5.0’
Leech 6.7’
Second reef
Luff 11.14’
Leech 14.3’
Joe
C26
Sea Horse
We were able to get to the boat today, after a very busy few months. Here are the dimensions of the first reef on our NS26U
First Reef
Luff 6’-8"
Leech 10’-7"
Foot. 19’-10"
I see that it does not pair with Joe’s dimensions at all, although Joe did not post the foot dimension of his first reef. And I think the foot dimension is the one controlling the placement of the cheek block on the boom.
How do these numbers compare with some others?
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Looks like the reef points on the sail are in the wrong place ..or the blocks on the boom are too far back. From the pictures the blocks look wrong. Maybe someone who is close to their boat can give you the measurements.
Thor,
I think the reef points are pretty close to being right, the Nonsuch Ultra 26 manual lists the First Reef Tack as 6’-5" and the Clew as 9’-0", so that is close to my 6’-8" and 10’-7".
The one dimension that I cannot verify is the Foot dimension at the First Reef , 19’-10". I hope some others can give me the dimension at their First Reef. That dimension affects the Cheek Block placement more than the others.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS26U
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Hi Tim -
I’ve attached the photo that you originally sent in. I’m only using your photo of your boom to illustrate the positions of the reefing cheek blocks on your boom. The RED line shows the distance from the casting at the aft end of the boom to the 1st reefing block. And, the GREEN line shows the same thing for the 2nd reefing block.
I will, herewith, invoke Mark Powers. He has stated that on his N26, the distance to the 1st reef block is 20.5 “. The distance to the 2nd block is 57”. I still maintain that these measurements did not change “at the factory” and the hardware was mounted in the same place on all of the N26 booms. To me, just looking at your photo, I think that your blocks are in the right place and, in my opinion, your cringles are too high up on the sail.
They simply look/seem/appear somewhat too high relative to any other Nonsuch sail that I’ve seen.
Ernie A. in Toronto
Tim,
I blew up your picture titled, 1st Reef Pulled Tight, to take a closer look at your blocks (see the attached picture).
It looks to me like your first reefing line is running through the block on the starboard side of the wishbone (the more forward one), while your second reefing line is running through the block on the port side (the one further aft).
If I’m seeing that correctly, that’s the opposite of how they’re supposed to run. If so, might be the source of your problem.
The first reef line should be tied around the boom on the starboard side (passing through an eye that’s across from the turning block), pass through the first reef clew cringle, run through the aft turning block on the inner port side, and run forward from there.
The second reef line should be tied to to the boom on the port side, run through the second reef clew cringle higher up the sail, pass through the turning block on the inner starboard side of the wishbone (located further forward compared to the first reef turning block) , and run forward from there.
– Bob
Solar Wind
Nonsuch 26C #143
