Should I save this old Paloma water heater?

Newsgroups Archive Prior to 2025
1

A mystery as to the source of an occasionally wet cabin sole has been solved – the Paloma instant hot water heater is leaking.

I popped the cover off today to see if a line was cracked or perhaps a gasket had let go and discovered a handful of rust. The operating unit itself seems to work fine other than a leaky gasket, but the rear and front sheet metal cover is badly rusted from the leak. Clearly, the leak has been happening for quite some time.

Photos and explanation are posted at https://svnarwhal.us/2022/is-this-paloma-water-heater-worth-saving/

I am on the fence: save it or replace it or do away with a water heater altogether? I know about the concerns with carbon monoxide and explosion. Our primary use case would be when on the hook or on a mooring ball; we don’t need hot water at the dock, where the boat lives most of the time!

Thanks in advance,

Tom Salzer
Swoose N26C #35
Olympia, WA

2

Thank it for it’s service and let it go would be my advice. Unless you want a winter project to refurbish it.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island

3

Get rid of it Tom, and install an engine/110VAC hot water heater.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

4

Decide how badly you want running hot water. we do not have it. Heat a kettle when needed and sometimes fill a thermos or insulated pump container as seen in some coffee shops. We removed ours years ago for the same reason, the previous owner failed to winterize and freezing resulted in leaks. We appreciate the extra space.

Some people won’t do without.

Consider service and winterizing costs.

Rob Powers
Respite 26C #50
Sidney BC

5

I can’t imagine not having the comfort of hot showers on a cruising boat. It would also, certainly, have an impact on the marketing of the boat in the future.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

6

WOW that’s a rusted mess. I’ve been getting water in somewhere too so I’ll take the cover off and take a look. I put a plastic bag around the top deck vent thinking maybe from there. Hopefully this will get to the bottom of the leaky bits. Thank you for sharing the photos Tom.

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Sorry, forgot to add who I am

David
NS 30 #145
Thursday’s Child
RNSYS Halifax NS

8

Tom,

If you decide to go with a close to drop-in replacement, many Nonsuchers have gone with the Excel instant propane water heater. There are strong feelings on both sides because early heaters – particularly the Paloma – had carbon monoxide leakage and fire hazard issues. However, there have been no problems reported with the current generation on this discussion board. Many Nonsuchers have them and are quite happy with them.

Since many people have stoves and heaters inside the boat powered by propane, there’s nothing intrinsically unsafe about propane appliances on boats.

The important thing is simply making sure that the installation is done properly, that sensors are in place, and that the boat’s propane hoses have been updated to modern standards. Specifically for Nonsuches, that means ensuring that there are no Tees or joins outside the propane locker. The rule is one hose direct from the locker separately for each appliance. The original propane system on our boats is not up to this standard because there’s a Tee from the hose inside the boat that branches to the stove and water heater.

There are also a wide range of conventional heaters that work on engine heat and AC shorepower of the type Joe is recommending.

I’ve had both kinds of heaters over the year, and everyone is right on this. They both work well and it’s nice to have hot water.

That said, I rarely use it myself and unless you’re cruising for more than a few days, it’s easy to get by without it.

Finally, it certainly does affect the resale value of the boat. But that depends on your long-term plans.

– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U
Sailing in Southern California

9

Like Rob we removed ours decades ago and never missed it. We have 2 solar bags for showers and they work fine. One less mechanical thing.

10

Thank you for the ideas and comments. I appreciate the larger view you folks are able to provide, especially since I am still quite new to the Nonsuch universe.

The suggestions ranged from (my words, not yours) “yank it out, you won’t miss it” to “replace it with a new propane (or electric) heater.”

I also contacted the good folks at http://www.waiwela.com/ about parts or a potential rebuild. Their responses: “Unfortunately finding lightly used parts is the best bet for those. We do work on the units, but in this case we’d just be tightening some screws and I can’t guarantee it would fix anything long term. Unfortunately nothing we sell is rated for use on a boat” -AND- “While those are great units and we love to keep them running as long as possible there are not many parts offered any longer. Inside that valve is an obsolete diaphragm that will eventually wear out. You can most likely stop that leak for the time being by loosening the screws and then retightening in a star pattern.”

They did send instructions on addressing the leak in the valve. I’m happy to send those to anyone who may be interested.

So what to do…hmmm… Hot water is more important to the first mate than to me, but I also recognize that resale will be affected by the lack of such a system. It doesn’t feel like repairing the existing system is going to add value. Our dock electrical is pretty limited, too, so an electrical water heater with tank may not be viable (but I’ll investigate more deeply this week). We have 120VAC 30-amp service coming to the boat that is split into two 15-amp legs. 15 amps is not a lot of juice when it comes to heating water.

Conclusion: the old Paloma heater has served well over many years but it’s time to retire that unit. Right now, I’m leaning toward the Excel instant water heater. (See https://excelonlinestore.com/product/excel-16-gpm-tankless-gas-water-heater-low-pressure-startup-ventfree-lpg/ for info.) I’ll construct a cardboard mockup and see how it might fit in the existing space. The existing vent for the Paloma could be converted to a solar vent to help assure that exhaust gases and combustion moisture from the Excel unit exit the boat.

As noted by Bob, the propane system on Swoose does not meet today’s standard. I’ll need to add running new individual lines to the cost. (As an aside, last week I got the two small propane tanks recertified…except one had a failed valve, so that tank got replaced with a new one.)

This will also give me a chance to add some shutoff valves which are not currently present in the hot water system. The two valves in the bilge area appear to not have been exercised for years so they are stuck open. All of those hoses (a few of which feel soft), the two valves in the bilge, and the three-way valve under the galley sink need attention.

I appreciate all of the advice. We can sail without hot water for a while. I’ll use my old trailer sailor trick of heating water in a kettle when we need to clean up.

Y’all are an awesome bunch!

Tom Salzer
Swoose N26C #35
Olympia, WA

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Tom -

Isotherm (and, likely, others) makes water heaters that use engine hot water or 750 watts @ 110 volts AC. They are little but they’ll do the job and not pop your breakers.

Joe - What type/brand is your combi hot water heater ?? Does it pull close to 15 amps ??

Ernie A. in Toronto

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We have had the Excel heater now for several years and love it. We also updated our propane system at the same time. There is no pilot light, and there is instant hot water on-demand. For us, propane is a great option because we are on a mooring.
Bill S
NS30C #40 SCBC in NOTL, ON.

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Bill Salton, when you installed the Excel did you keep the hose T junction and use the existing propane power switch by the stove?

David
NS30 #145
Thursday’s Child
RNSYS Halifax NS

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Hi David,
I changed everything to update to the new standards. I have two separate hoses from the propane locker: one to the excel and one to the stove. Our switch was beside the companion way stairs (to port) and I replaced that with a fume detector/alarm/shut-off system from The Binnacle. (Xintex Propane Fume Detector, Binnacle #17921)

The excel heater is virtually a drop in replacement. This year, I had a problem where it wouldn’t fire up. Their customer service was very good and they helped me troubleshoot. Turned out there was some debris from the water system that was causing the problem…all good now.

Regards,
Bill

15

Mine is a Kuuma 6 gal. Install it and forget it. Fits well in a NS30 aft of the engine. Photos available. https://www.bzbproducts.com/kuuma-grills-11811-120v-electric-water-heaters-with-heat-exchanger.html?msclkid=8070fdcf07c81ecb14369f24d8176418&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20Shop%20-%20Marine%20(%24200%2B)&utm_term=4586956357271623&utm_content=38956%20%7C%20Kuuma%20Grills%2011811%20120v%20Electric%20Water%20Heaters%20With%20Heat%20Exchanger%20%7C%20%24288.91

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA