My starboard deck along most of the cabin side is soft. I am being quoted 5K CDN to repair. Is that reasonable
Lloyd Robbins
Nonsuch30Isadora 81
I had several soft spots repaired last spring. At the same time I also completely rebuilt the mast collar area at the deck, as it was delaminated and the collar itself was moving under load (and the bolts were leaking at the boltholes). Specifically this included three large-ish deck sections that were delaminated plus removing and rebuilding the core and glass for about three feet around the step.
I had the boat surveyed after the initial repairs and at the survey two other large-ish delaminated areas on the deck were identified. The cost for repairing these areas (about 8-10 sq feet in total) was $2.5k US. I suspect the yard built into this charge some potential losses on the main the job, but if we assume that those repairs were worth $2.5k US, then while that $5k CDN estimate “feels” a little high, it’s probably broadly in line.
FWIW, the total charges for rebuilding the mast collar area with new foam core and Kosa board, together with re-glassing all of the deck delamination (including the areas I mentioned above) were $13.5k US.
Not sure how much this helps, but it’s something.
Chad Demarest
bluebird
'81 Nonsuch 30C
Good information They said there was moisture around mast but it feels solid too me they wanted 10k to do both areas
Hi Lloyd -
In September of 2019, I handed my boat off to (someone I won’t name here) in the Toronto area to have the foredeck recored. It turned out that 3 other one-foot-square deck areas around the perimeter of the boat also needed a redo and I gave the go-ahead to start. The job was supposed to take 3-4 weeks. I moved the boat to a marina where this work could be done as opposed to my club where work of this scale cannot be done either at the dock or in the yard. I was supposed to get the boat back no later, worst case scenario, than mid-October so I could move her back to my club and get hauled out.
The boat was tied up for 11.5 months. Shortly after the time when work was supposed to begin, the guy doing the work (let’s call him Arnold) informed me that he was going to be “really busy with a new/old boat that he’d just bought” but “not to worry”. Several different reasons then cropped up for why the work had started but, sadly, wasn’t completed before winter arrived.
Then, COVID arrived. Spring also arrived and Arnold was actually permitted to work, in a boatyard, on boats. But, Arnold had all of his grandfathered clients and “Sorry, Ernie, they come first”. By end of May, 2020, most of the work was done but Arnold had his vacation booked and nothing was going to get in the way of “family time at the cottage”.
To his credit, Arnold finished the job by stalling off his vacation for one day and I motored my poor boat back to my club at the beginning of August.
Why did I tell you my sob story ?? So that you know that you are at the absolute mercy of the business that you engage to do this work. I did do my due diligence and Arnold was recommended by several people that I trust.
His structural work was good. He painted the entire deck with KiwiGrip, an excellent product. He did a quick and sloppy job with the deck paint. (After all, his vacation beckoned.)
The foredeck ran around 11 sq. ft. Add the 3 more spots and you’ve got a total of 14 sq. ft. Arnold ended up taking $500. CAD of of the job and I paid him $4800.00.
This whole heartbreaking episode was my first (and hopefully, last) exposure to the “tradesperson that takes on twice the volume of work that they can possibly put out”. This seems to be more common, for mareine-related work, than I’d thought. I actually believed the guy when he said “3 weeks, maximum 4”.
A few more tidbits: As you’ll need a rebuild of most most of one side (and, apologies, you should absolutely get the foredeck done around the mast collar - it’s a critical area - why not just do the whole job and be done), you’ll need to repaint/re-gelcoat/recoat the entire deck as one side won’t match with the other. The re-application of non-skid gelcoat is a fine art. there’s good chance that someone who does not have the skill to do this will do a crappy job. Think carefully of what type of treatment you want on the deck.
My suggestion is to have a good surveyor (not the fibreglasser who wants the work) check your entire deck for soft/wet areas and advise you. It’ll be the best few hundred smackers you’ll spend. Ask the surveyor for recommendations for the repairs. Go with a place that has some facility to work indoors or covered up.
I don’t know where you are (the warm south or the frozen north). Ten G’s to do the whole job sounds absolutely reasonable, especially for a 30 footer. My boat is only 22’. Be VERY careful who you get to do this work. A few thousand dollars more (spent on a boat that you love and that will hold its value IF it’s taken care of) may buy you a LOT of peace of mind.
Good luck with this and keep a very open mind. Don’t rush. It’ll ALWAYS take longer than almost anyone will commit to but, Lordy, it shouldn’t take a year. I’ve attached a photo of my foredeck all ground out and awaiting finishing. It was a long wait …
Ernie A. in Toronto
Hi Ernie,
This is a sad tale indeed.
Several years ago, it was determined that we needed a new engine for our Nonsuch 30C.
We were referred by a local marine store to a company and we contacted them quickly. That was in the fall when the boat was on the hard. I met with the mechanic and gave him a deposit of $12000.00 to cover the cost of the engine. By January, despite many calls, no work had been done. Come March, same story. Got a call in May that the work would be done shortly. By August, nothing.
Gave up and got another referral from a Nonsuch owner who had recently installed a new engine and promptly hired their mechanic. We then had to pay in advance for the engine that by now had increased in price. The engine was installed and we’re very happy with it 6 years later.
In the meantime, we tried unsuccessfully to get our money back from the first guy. I went to the marine store owner who had recommended him and apparently the engine had never been ordered. We did find out that this guy was bragging about his new workshop and vehicle paid by guess who.
So we decided to go to small claims court, not for the faint-of-heart. The guy did not protest the decision but refused to pay. I managed by my own sleuthing to find out where he had his bank account and where he lived and I was able to get about 1/3 of what we’d paid. Then I put a lien on his property and figured that sooner or later, given his apparent depending habits, he’d re-finance his home. Sure enough, I got a call 4 years later because while applying for a new mortgage, the lender discovered the lien. Within two days, I received a bank draft for what was owed plus interest.
Long story but satisfactory ending,
Dorothy Salusbury Nonsuch 30 ABYC Toronto
Nice going Dorothy!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
I too have a soft deck on my Nonsuch. All of the intrusion appears to have occurred around the bow pulpit that I believe was installed as an aftermarket item. None of the fasteners on the pulpit were sealed, while virtually every other fitting on the boat was sealed with butyl tape around the screws. All the stanchion bases have been removed, as well as the cleats, anchor chocks and deck pipes. I hope to have all the grinding done by the end of the week.
I would appreciate any work in progress pictures that members can send my way as well as product recommendations that could be used to produce a functional and good looking end result. I have a good crew of technical advisers for this project, but not much experience producing a good looking, nicely faired repair.
Randy Gadikian
NS 26C #37
Paisley Moon
Buffalo, New York
Randy
If by “ functional and good looking end result” you mean rebedding the hardware, take a look at the article on this subject at marinehowto.com.
Ken Dakin
NS 33 #7
Sashay
Kingston ON
Question was the plywood soft. Do you have to replace that also? I many have same issue so am interested in information. Thank
Lloyd Robbins
Nonsuch 30 181
If you’ve not heard of Coosa board, you may want to use that instead of wood as a repair. BTW, Lloyd, you may find someone near you if you let us know where you or the boat is.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
My boat is at Chester ns South shore marina
Randy -
I, too, am not certain as to what exactly you are going to repair yourself. Are you just talking about rebedding the bolts, etc. or are you talking about reglassing the foredeck (which means recoring it, as well).
If it’s the latter, think twice before you attempt to do this work yourself, out in the open, etc. It HAS to come out looking PERFECT, right ? And, it must match the rest of the deck, right ?
I don’t believe that you do your own bodywork on your car and I’d suggest that you get a good pro to do this work, if it involves surgery and fibreglass. It is a very noticeable area on the boat and, if not very well executed, it will look like hell, frankly.
Best,
Ernie A. in Toronto
Ernie,
l have some good professionals at the yard supporting me but am considering farming out the entire job or at least parts of it if I can come to an accommodation with the yard. We will see.
The last repair that I undertook that was way above my skill level was the replacement of of the rudder gussets, which actually turned out great. This project is really scary to me, but only from the prospect of doing the finish work because as you said, “it has to look perfect”. Please note, I do drywall repairs with a minimal amount of cursing.
Randy G. in Buffalo
Here are a few pictures of some of the work we did on our boat. Word began in January in a covered shed on Cape Cod, and was completed by April. The final nonskid paint work (all nonskid on the main deck, none on the cabin top or coamings) was far from perfect, but refreshing the nonskid-ness of the nonskid was a nice side benefit. The whole job was about on budget, looking back at the estimates and receipts. Funny how costs rise with new work, in ways we don’t always fully process unless we’re keeping close track. Keep close track! I’ll second the Coosa board recommendation (not Koosa, as I’d said last week and as appears on the bills from the yard), while not cheap it’s strong light and very robust.
All of the soft spots we found included no rot. Even the plywood, which had been soaked and dried many times, was still structurally in pretty good shape. The main problem was delamination.
I’ve done a lot of fiberglass work in my life, and was considering tackling this job on my own, but I wouldn’t have been able to do the job they did–not on the finish work, which I don’t actually think “has to be perfect” if you’re using paint (gelcoat is another matter), but rather the structural stuff at the maststep…that’s a good spot for professionals. If you’re handy with glass and resin and paint and tape and you can keep things real real clean, I think deck repairs are within reach.
Chad Demarest
bluebird
'81 Nonsuch 30C
Here are some photos of soft deck repairs done in 2010 by Peter Karadi of Custom Yachts, Whitby.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C1
Toronto
This largely tracks with my quote. I had soft decks around the foremast and since she was on the hard anyway, I got a quote and had work done. They removed and replaced core for about the first 7 or 8 feet back from bow to before my forward hatch, re-glassed, matched paint, etc. The masts were already out, so no additional cost for that, restepping, or launch. $US 13,900.
I have a soft spot down the right side of the deck that I think we’re attributing to either a leaky deck prism or perhaps a portlight. My intention is to replace the portlights next spring, and I’ll look at replacing that section of the deck in a couple of years.
Brian
SV Serenity
Nonsuch Nereus #003
Pax River, MD
The service manager (Zanhisers Safe Harbor, Solomons, which I can recommend) suggested we could plant a vegetable garden in the rotting plywood in my foredeck. I didn’t take him up on the offer, so they replaced it with Coosa board.
Brian
SV Serenity
Nonsuch Nereus #003
Pax River, MD
So far I have about 20 hours in on the deck replacement for Paisley Moon. Here is what has been accomplished to date:
Removed bow pulpit
Removed stanchions
Removed cleats
Removed anchor tie down points
Cut away foredeck skin, leaving a 4 inch border
Dug out saturated balsa core (still some left)
Removed 30 x 30 inch square of grooved 3/4 inch plywood from foredeck (I don’t believe this was marine plywood as it only had 5 layers)
Drilled 3/4" holes through deck at all through deck fitting locations
Vacuumed more times than I can count.
Some observations:
The left side of the deck is drier than the right
Some rotten core is present in the right gunnel that goes down the cabin side about 4 feet, I need to take care of this still.
I have found rotten core in places that sound like good core when tapped with a hammer
A moisture meter is a good tool to own.
Next moves?
What do I use to replace the 3/4 inch plywood that was saturated and starting to rot. I have a piece of 3/4 inch marine plywood that I could use to replace the section that I removed, so do I use that or do I use coosa board?
Do I use divinycell instead of balsa as a core or some other material?
Do I dare look at the cabin top?
Note 1, the boat is 39 years old. The hull is sound. (What is the lifespan of a fiberglass hull?)
Note 2, I am retired and I rather like the challenge of this restoration project.
Note 3, I have good support from my boatyard and a local chandlery.
Randy Gadikian
Paisley Moon
Nonsuch 26c #37
Buffalo, New York
Randy,
I asked about replacement material as well. I was surprised that my foredeck seemed to contain no balsa core at all–just ply. Like you, I did not find that it appeared to be marine ply, but my hull was built in Taiwan, rather than Canada. The entire area, the first six feet of decking, were replaced by coosa board. It may be more expensive, but (I’m told, but don’t necessarily believe) that it does not need to be “sealed” with epoxy when you put holes in for through-decking.
I used this as an opportunity to re-drill through-deck holes for my mast collar, windlass, and cleats. I used M6 and M8 bolts instead of the mish-mash of “whatever bolt happened to be to hand” that was in place (or at least that was what it seemed to me at the time).
Dare to look at the cabin top. I’ve got to do so in the next several years, as my mizzen goes through just forward of the cockpit, and I already know I have some soft spots around the forward edge of the mast collar.
Note 1. I am told that the lifespan of a fiberglass hull, well cared for, is … unknown. They haven’t started dying yet.
Note 2. When you get done, you can come do mine 
Note 3. This seems critical. You may not appreciate the challenge without good support.
Good luck!
Brian
SV Serenity
Nonsuch Nereus #003
Pax River, MD
Brian,
Thanks for telling me about your foredeck.
I rather like the idea of using all Coosa instead of Coosa just around the mast collar. I will have to look into that, but I don’t know if coosa can form the compound curves necessary on the edges of the bow on a 26. If anyone else has insights into this please let me know. My thoughts right now are to replace any balsa with some type of foam, but I am not sure which type of foam.
I do know that any through deck holes, for mounting sanction bases, bow pulpit, cleats and the like will be over drilled to 3/4 of an inch and filled with epoxy to seal the deck material.
My materials list so far consists of:
3/4 inch coosa (1/3 sheet)
1/2 inch foam material (amount to be determined)
West System epoxy
407 filler for fairing
406 filler for bonding
406 for all mounting points that go through the deck, maybe mixed with some chopped glass.
Working on the boat so far has not been terrible as the temperature here is in the high 30’s to low 60’s. I hope to do all the work with the exception of fairing over the winter. We will see.
Randy