I am considering having a new sail made for FATE by the same local loft that made the existing sail over a decade ago. (And that recently made a sail for another Chesapeake Bay Nonsuch.) Currently, I have a Tide Marine Strong Track system installed and the existing sail has a full top batten, while the lower three are extra long (but not full) tapered battens made of carbon fiber. A “wedge-shaped” piece was taken off the foot of the sail when it was originally made to help it clear the bimini.
The sailmaker is suggesting that the new sail have the top 2 battens be full and that the sail be made of 7.5 oz cloth. (He sail no lighter than 7 and no heavier than 8).
Battens – My impression from this discussion group over the years is that many folks have found full battens to be a pain in that it makes the sail harder to drop and that they may not invert correctly in light air. My one full batten has not been a problem but I’m not sure about two. What’s the current thinking about battens?
Size/Roach – Because of the topping lift it does not seem practical to add roach to gain additional sail area for our light summer winds. I do not care about ensuring the boat is racing legal, I’m just looking to maximize performance for the area we sail.
Cloth weight-- Does 7.5 oz cloth seem to be the norm?
I thought that all the battens had to be in compliance with the original specs. Then, the boat could be raced to the stated Performance Handicap Rating Fleet (PHRF). For a Nonsuch 30 it is 177, for the 30 SD it is 186. 26 is 219, and 26 SD it is 228. Bob Horne, N26C, 1989 #249, ENCORE, Pocasset, MA
I care about going fast (as she is capable of going) and sailing well, but I do not plan on racing her. So slight deviations from class rules in the sail is not a concern to me.
Always think of “the next guy” and before you make slight alterations to a sail, remember that “the next guy” will be disadvantaged trying to race with this new sail. Consequently, your boat will be harder to sell. Is it REALLY worth it to change the cut of the sail ?
I have 2 full top battens on my N22 North sail. The only real problem is that they connect to the track with Battcars that will not allow the sail to to bend forward more than 90 degrees from the mast, not permitting one of the key Nonsuch advantages, running with the sail further forward than the actual mast. THAT does make a difference, especially in light winds.
Thanks Ernie. Not being able to let the sail out past 90 would be an unwanted limitation. As far as racing goes, the next owner (who, according to my wife, will not be buying FATE for a LONG time) may just have to buy a new sail.
Keep the boat, Jim (and hang on to that wife !!). Oh … and about the sailcloth… i was just talking to a sailmaker here in toronto, musing about a nice, new sail and he suggested nothing thicker than 7.5, quite possible 7.
My present sail is a NORTH Norlam (Soft) 5 oz. jobbie - cuz it’s laminated. it’s from 1998 and beginning to grow old (like me !!). BUT … cuz it’s laminated, it’s FULL of permanent mildew that will never come out. The mildew is in the laminations and it looks like you-know-what. Awful …
So, I’d go DACRON and do not suggest a laminated sail especially for cruising - you can wash Dacron.
I had a new sail made in 2012 by Evolution in Toronto.
Sail cloth is Challenge 7.7 oz Marblehead Dacron with a Class roach, one full length batten at the top, four other leech battens and two sets of reef cringles.
The sail is plenty big so I chose no extra roach.
The sail maker advised against a second full length batten.
I agree with Ernie. Use dacron, and 7 to 7.5oz more than enough to give you a good workout handeling it. I got a new sail from North in the spring of 2014. It is using their Radian NDR 5.2 cloth with one full and 3 short battens each with graduated stiffnes. Compared with my previous sail from Doyle with 7.2 oz with 2 full battens and 3 short, which I only got 2010 but could not get along with. The long second batten tended to freeze the slide in the track during tacking, and bends in an S-curve. Ond day in strong wind it tore the slide from the track, and I also had to have the top slides refastened and doubled up to prevent damage to the track. The new sail is radial cut and only the top batten is full. It is very easy to set and lower and allows me to point better than with a traditional sail due to the cut.
So with adding a Tide Track and a Evolution Stack Pack life is good! My backache is gone! And the sail ready to hoist or pack away in 5 minutes, no sail ties, no sail cover to stove and retrive, life is good indeed.
Jorgen,
Thanks for the advice. The local (Annapolis) sail loft I would use is a North Sails. Can you say more about the radial construction and its effect on pointing ability. Do you know how much that added to the cost? I'd be willing to pay extra for improved performance.
thanks,
Jim
thanks Ken. With so many negative opinions of more than 1 full batten, I'll have to press my sailmaker as to why he thinks it's a good idea to have 2. But at this point, I'm pretty sure I do not want more than 1 (if any).
Jim,
My 10 oz. sail has two full battens at the top. At the luff end those two battens have special bat-cars that allow for batten flexing. Perhaps it is those bat-cars and bronze hanks that have always allowed my sail to drop like a rock, even my original steel sail track. In very light air I do wish my sail was a lighter material, but perhaps it’s the heavier cloth that has allowed it to last some 25 years. My sail does have some roach that used to get caught on the topping lift, while tacking in light air - until recently. I have now added about a foot of lashing to the clew end. That change, at the clew, also required that I change the choker line at the pennant end by two feet where it attaches to the mast.
Herb G. Huber
MISTOFFELEES 30C#91
Southern Lake Huron
Sarnia, Ontario
I have a sail made by Harrstick and it has two full battens and two partial battens. The partials are half the width of the full battens. I have had no issues with cupping in light air. Occasionally I have to give it tug. There are arguments either way regarding full battens and I think it becomes more a matter of choice vs advantage.
I have seen sails with 4 full battens and they are not easy to handle.
The one item that I have noticed is my sail has more draft that some I have seen . I think off the wind and in light air it gives me more speed but I may not point as well.
The rules do not restrict batten length. Roach is often the main rules issue.
There are a few sail-makers that have made radial sails, North in Toronto and Kappa in Connecticut are ones that I know of.
Herb,
I understand how a longer clew lashing helps get the topping lift out of the way of the sail. But I'm not sure why you had to adjust the choker. Was it to allow the wishbone boom to extend further aft? I'm pretty sure my wishbone will go as far aft as the mast will let it right now.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks Thor. Glad to have it confirmed that battens are not a class issue. When I bought my 26C in 2010 it came with a radial cut sail made by Halsey in New England. It was a pretty fast boat. Not sure how much of it was the sail, however. I did keep the boat pretty light.
With my shoal draft configuration, I'd trade a bit of speed off the wind for some additional pointing.
Hi Jim,
I just purchased a new radial cut sail from North in Seattle. I have two full top battens and Strong track. I adjusted the tension on the second batten pretty loose (though it’s still tight enough to make the curved shape). There’s no problem tacking and it drops like a stone. I see the concern about not being able to let the sail out past 90 degrees, but I’ll give that up for better sail shape the rest of the time. As for weight, my guy recommended a 5.2 ounce cloth- since it’s a radial cut, the cloth can be lighter because the strength of the cloth is oriented along the stress lines. So a few pounds lighter up top doesn’t hurt (though I threw that all away by adding a radar!). My old sail was original (okay, boat launched in 1995) and was pretty bagged out. I couldn’t tighten the choker enough to get the sail off the wishbone. Now it can go much flatter and I’m able to point several degrees higher. Had a great sail today in fact.
Good luck.
Brian Berdan
Blue September 260 #007
Bainbridge Island, WA
Jim
Yes, in my case there was plenty of travel room between the block at the forward end of the boom and my mast. I had to shorten the pennant at the mast because my choker block and tackle needed more travel to add the extra out-haul. While I did that to help the sail get by the topping lift, it would also help someone wanting to clear their Bimini. For anyone wanting to do that keep in mind that due to the purchase on the block and tackle, for the foot I added at the clew I had to take in two feet at the mast end.
Herb G. Huber
MISTOFFELEES 30C#91
Southern Lake Huron
Sarnia, Ontario