Looks like I’ll be getting a new sail for Sandpiper. I’d be interested in comments pro and con from people who have full battens. I’ve read the reviews but I’m interested in hearing from Nonsuch owners who have them. Right now I’m leaning toward the devil I know, partial battens, but I’m open to persuasion.
I’d also like to hear about alterations that have been done on leach reef cringle location and any repercussions on topping lift tackles etc.
Last summer I took delivery of new sail for Sheba (NS30C – 212) from ZSails in Stamford, CT. The old sail had traditional partial battens. Based on comments here and the sailmaker’s recommendation, the top batten is now a full batten, the others are partial battens (but longer and narrower than the my old partial battens). I’ve been pleased with the sail’s performance, notably in club PHRF racing, in part I assume due to the additional roach. Of course better control of sail shape with a new sail probably accounts for most of the difference in performance.
When raising the sail, I believe the tension of the full batten increases friction along the sail track, noticeable on the last 5 feet or so. I have a Tides sail track, and the sail still drops like rock with no issues on the way down.
Overall a plus with the single full batten on top.
– Tony Martin
Sheba, Nonsuch 30C - #212
Nyack Boat Club, Nyack NY
Paul: The new sail I had made when I purchased my boat in 2003 had full battens. I replaced two of them with partials and it definitely was and improvement. However, I can't remember which ones. Next time i sail I'll check.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
FATE’s sail has one full batten at the top, the rest are partial (carbon fiber tapered). When I got a quote from the local sail loft for making a new sail, they suggested making the top 2 battens full battens. (I have not yet had a new sail made as the cost was pretty high.)
One thing I recall reading in the past is that some have said having all/most full battens can limit the extent the sail can be let out past 90 degrees on a run without placing a lot of stress on the cars/battens. I do not know if this is true, so I’d be interested if anyone with mostly full battens can address this point.
Since I have to reef a bit earlier anyway because of FATE’s shoal draft, I’m always interested in improving light air performance and wonder if having the two top battens be full and a bit more roach would help. Has anyone had their sailmaker take keel type (standard vs. shoal) into consideration?
Thanks for the thoughts and pictures. It looks like l will be keeping it pretty much stock for battens.
Can anyone shed any light on the raising of the reef cringles that I have heard of? Like how much are they raised and what effect does it have on topping lift and tackle lengths?
Just saw your post re full battens and wanted to chime in.
My first Nonsuch, a 30U (10 years ago) came with full battens. I was very pleased with sail and never noticed any problems. Sailed from Chesapeake Bay to FL and into Bahamas and back. Did a little PHRF racing. One really nice feature is the almost total absence of flogging at any time; raising sail, reefing sail, or heaving to (getting on broad reach and letting sail out to point it luffs a little). Very easy on the nerves. It also always “dropped like a rock” when halyard was released. Bronze slides on original track. If you wanted to take sail off boat, removing that long bottom batten was, uh, interesting.
When I got my present Nonsuch 22OB, I sailed it for a bit with old, blown out sail. One big thing I noticed was when raising sail or reefing in strong winds, the flogging was loud and a bit nerve wracking. Granted that sail was well used and no stiffness at all. That was also before I got my present Andersen 28ST winch which cuts sail raising time in half (and gives a nice aerobic workout).
When I talked to Mack Sails in Stuart FL about a new sail I asked about full battens. He said he’d outfitted two identical charter cruisers, one with full battens, one with partial. 4 or 5 years later the one with partial battens needed extensive work, the full batten, very little. So I paid a little extra and got all full battens. I suspect having just the top two full would give you most of the reduced flogging benefit.
I just changed from a 7/16" halyard to a dyneema core 3/8" halyard - nice on hands. Now my sail is dropping like a rock and sail track is original and slides are stainless. I think I lubed it with Elmers Slideall beginning of season. With 7/16" halyard, I was having to go forward and “help” it come down more. Was hoping for this but a little surprised nevertheless.
The sail cover maker (one recommended by Butch Garren and others) did a fantastic job but I think his experience with shorter battened sails led to making it just a little tight - a few more inches girth would make it a little easier to zip up.
I had some reefing issues initially (you reef a 22 a LOT more often than a 30) but found what I was doing wrong and sail shape now excellent full sail or reefed. And I’d have had same issues with a “normal” sail.
FWIW: Remember I have no experience with normally battened Nonsuches except using a blown out sail.
Thanks Ernie,
It’s not that much added cost, just a couple of hundred dollars but I will be talking it over with other owners in a few days at our west coast summer rendezvous before I give final approval to the design. I can still make changes.
I have 7 full length fibreglass battens on C.A.T. and while I have never sailed a Nonsuch with partials, I’m not in love with the full length ones. They add considerable weight to the sail and I have a lot of trouble getting them to come down evenly, forcing me to go to the mast and ‘shake’ them out to aft before the sail will come all the way down - see diagram (arrowheads are the leech ends of battens). What seems to happen is the leech side seems to drop faster than the luff and the aft tips of the battens dig in and curve up the mast. I have tried various different sail dropping techniques, with and without the topping lift to no avail.
I’m considering a new sail soon and have been leaning to partials except at the very top but hadn’t considered the other comments about less flogging. Have also had issues with the batten car fitment and chafe on the mast and sail when running dead downwind.
Jim Denmark
C.A.T. 1982 Nonsuch 30C #146 lying San Carlos, SON. MX.
I had a new sail made for Nonsuch Luck about five years ago, for which I specified full battens and a slightly enlarged roach. This is a decision I have not regretted. I think the battens are fibreglass but they are very light so don’t add much weight to the sail. It is a heavy sail as I think the cloth the sailmaker used was heavier than the previous sail, but that was the weight advised by the clothmaker for a Nonsuch 30. It drops quite symmetrically and the battens don’t dig into the sail as described below. Without full battens, the old sail tended to drop in a heap behind the mast and then had to be pulled aft to get the sail cover on.
The downside is that, as already mentioned, the battens cars foul the Tides Strong track and try to pull it away from the mast if the sail is out further forward of the mast than perpendicular. I don’t like running anyway as there’s always the possibility of a catastrophic jibe; how I wish to be able to unfurl a bit of jib in those circumstances!
Bob Illingworth
Nonsuch Luck 30U #367 (GBR1262T)
Moored Brightlingsea, UK cruising the rivers of East Anglia and the North Sea.
When I bought my boat in 2003, I had a new sail made that included full battens. About 5 years ago, I had the lower two shortened and I’m much happier with the shape and resultant performance.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Doyle Marblehead - now Salem, MA made a sail with the top two full and bottom two less than full for my N26 before I bought my boat. Great sail shape and much better than my current regular batten sail. I would caution that you must look at the top 8 to 10 feet of the sail track for pulled rivets due to stress with the full battens. Bob Horne, N26C, 1989, 249, Pocasset, MA
I’ve found that most track problems are usually related to the crew, when reefing, tightening the clew before the halyard in addition to the choker being the last to be tightened.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
