It is getting time to replace Catnap's sail and, with all the choices,
it ain't easy!
Older posts on the Nonsuch Listserv had some lively debates on fully
battened sails. If I remember correctly, they could be a nightmare to
lower. However, I looked at an article from Practical Sailor
which had good things to say and that Storm Track has fittings
designed for a fully battened sail. (We're thinking about going to
the Storm track anyway, because there is too much friction raising the
sail.)
So, before I even worry about which loft (which may be like selecting
the right religion), there appear to be some good performance reasons
for a fully battened sail. Even with better sail slides and the
Practical Sailor review, is a fully battened sail for a Nonsuch
nonsense?
Well, Bill, I’ve had a fully battened sail now for about 5 years. I’ve raced and cruised with it. I’m certainly not happy with it but I’m not sure if the fault lies with the full battens or the sailmaker. I suggest that you get input from someone who has a full battened sail and is happy. I don’t remember what “Bott’s thoughts” were on full battens. I can’t say enough good things about the strong track, though.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
A few years ago, as we were rewriting the INA Class Rules, we did fairly extensive research on the subject with a number of sailmakers. My interpretation of the research is that the majority of the sailmakers WHO NEW NONSUCHES INTIMATELY would recommend LONGER battens than were originally specified, but NOT full-length. They DID recommend longer battens than the ones limited by the existing rules systems at the time, such as CCA, IOR, etc. As a result, we removed the restrictions in the INA Rules, allowing all owners to do whatever they wanted with batten length.
Longer battens would extend the life of the sail.
Longer battens would create a better sail shape.
Full battens make it more difficult “read” the sail. (In a sloop, you are “reading” the jib and adjusting the mainsail accordingly.)
Full battens often do not “tack” in light air. (The sail remains “inside out.”)
Full battens make it difficult to raise, lower, and furl a Nonsuch sail even with the modern track systems. (If they do not significantly improve performance, why complicate the simplicity of the Nonsuch?)
The exception was that the N33, because of the original design specs for the sail with a large high roach, benefit from one or two full battens at the top.
What many of the sailmakers told us was that we do NOT have a mainsail, but a large #1 genoa jib.
As an aside – we did some informal racing many years ago between a full-battened sail and a conventional one with no definitive differences noticed IMHO.
Sorry, I forgot to renew the old admonition that the Nonsuch sail is VERY unusual for many reasons and that sailmakers who have not made a lot of them which have been successful in racing – preferably some some one-design racing, no matter how good they may be with other boats, should be avoided. It’s a major investment and buying one from an experienced Nonsuch sailmaker is the safest way to go.
Hi Bill
When we purchased our NS30U it came with full battens. They work well when sailing and we have no trouble reefing. We have the original sail track and slides but with special slides at the ends of the battens. The full battens were added sometime after the sail was built, probably to extend its life. The sail is old but still in good condition and the full battens give it a decent shape. However, based on our experience I would not recommend full battens for a Nonsuch because they prevent the sail from dropping cleanly into the cradle. Since the sail is so big, the battens are very long and when the sail is lowered the aft end of the lower batten comes down first and hangs up in the cradle. This leaves about 1/3 of the sail still up in the wind until we can go forward and pull the ends of the battens back. This can be a real pain in heavy air and/or waves. Sometimes, when it is real breezy and we have the time, we can lower the sail very slowly so that the it luffs which keeps the battens horizontal. Not good for the sail but at least we don't have to go forward until we want to.
The only solution would be an arrangement that will keep the battens horizontal as the sail is lowered. If anyone has full battens that allow the sail to come down cleanly, I would sure like to hear from them.
As much as I complain about my fully battened sail, dropping it is not one of the problems. It drops into the cradle lines easily (we tend to show off that feature when sailing into marinas) and as long as the crew pulls the aft end of the sail back prior to placing sail ties around it, it’s fine.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
Even the sailmakers who know better can screw up at times. Make sure that you put down exactly what you want in writing when committing to purchase a sail. Unlike the jibs on other boats, the Nonsuch “jib” that is well made and taken care of can last 20 years or more. You have to live with the consequences of your decisions, good or bad unless you have money to burn.
Botts and I settled on long battens but not full length ones when I ordered a new sail for my 26 in 2005. Also I ordered bronze slides at the time and a substantial first reef which reduces the height of the sail by about 10 feet. I am happy with the results. The sail will outlast me.
I did not go the Strong Track route because my neighbour, another 26 had it and was not satisfied. He ended up buying an expensive electric winch. I believe the problem he had was due to spiders gumming up the track and not the fault of the Strong Track. I can have the same problem if I do not add a little detergent to my bronze slides and lower track from time to time. I have avoided the electric winch option, but have gone to a heavier duty halliard winch this year to replace the original Barient 19 2 speed self tailing since spare parts are no longer available for this winch.
This year, I sailed on a 26 with a new full batten sail and found that the full battens put a substantial strain on the track and slides near the top of the mast. There is compression at the top batten to the extent it can distort and break the slide at the batten while pulling away the slide(s) at the top of the mast. If full battens are to be used, stay away from stainless slides and make sure a headboard is used with two positions for attaching the halliard so that one can attach it to the aft one to reduce the strain on the upper slides and track. A metal “ring” attachment is not good enough even though it may be cheaper.
Misty Cat has a 26 yr old (original Hood) sail to which a full batten was added at top by previous owner. All lower battens are original. We have the original bronze slides and stainless track. I believe this full batten is part of the reason the sail shape holds up so well. I have no trouble raising or dropping the sail, and use Sunlight dish soap to lube the track before hoisting (I apply a couple of squirts undiluted to the top slide before hoisting).
Greg Silver
Misty Cat N26C #121
St. Peter’s, Cape Breton
Even the sailmakers who know better can screw up at times. Make sure that you put down exactly what you want in writing when committing to purchase a sail. Unlike the jibs on other boats, the Nonsuch “jib” that is well made and taken care of can last 20 years or more. You have to live with the consequences of your decisions, good or bad unless you have money to burn.
Sorry, I forgot to renew the old admonition that the Nonsuch sail is VERY unusual for many reasons and that sailmakers who have not made a lot of them which have been successful in racing – preferably some some one-design racing, no matter how good they may be with other boats, should be avoided. It’s a major investment and buying one from an experienced Nonsuch sailmaker is the safest way to go.
Allen Ames
Gregory Silver, B Des, CGD, FGDC
Communication Design Group A Division of CDG Management Inc.
PO Box 178
St. Peter’s, Nova Scotia
Canada B0E 3B0
As usual, regardless of his descent into the dark side, (which due to my deteriorating eyes, is getting brighter all the time) Ames has put it as succinctly and as accurately as possible.
I hav both a Tides track and a sail woith the top two battens being
full. It was purchased in 2003 and we long many miles on her every
year. Very satisfied with it. Was designed and built by Haarstick
Sails. Haarstick has quite a bit of experiance with unstayed masts so
he is familiar with the issues. Speak to Steve.
Talk to Tim Healy Quantum Sails Newport,RI just built me a sail for NS 30 , great Quality
He recently won J24 worlds.
401 391-1486
Steve Bosco NS 30 U #210
I have used a Max Prop on my 88 30U, W27A since purchasing the boat in 07 and like it very much. Mine is a 2 blade, I believe 16 inch which I will check if you want, which I find works just fine. The prop must be set properly for pitch and thats it. New versions have zerc fittings which make greasing the prop a one minute job. Older ones can have the zercs added by PMI or I guess you could do it yourself - but they know how. I had PMI do it, overhaul and check out the prop and it came back looking like a new one and works great. Greasing requires disassembly if you do not have the zercs. Great prop.
Fred
Fred & Linda Rachwitz
NS 30 U #445
Concerto
Harbor Springs, Michigan USA
It depends on how much you want to spend. Mine is a Gory 2 blade folder which I purchased used from someone on the list. The hinge pins were a little worn so I had it machined locally. It added at least a half knot to my sailing speed and no problems under power or when backing. My total investment was around $400. There are lots of used props on Ebay and other sites. Be very particular on the proper size and pitch.
Joe Valinoti
S/V IL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour Yacht Club
Oriental, NC
I have a 3-blade MaxProp, and except for the high price,
would strongly recommend it. Very reliable.
No problems, virtually No propwalk, easy maintenance.
It is “feathering” (not folding), but avoids many problems.