Just thought I’d introduce myself, I’ll try not to bore you, but feel free to skip as it might be a bit long. Ive raced many years on other people’s boat, mostly at Etobicoke Yacht Club (EYC), but now that Im getting older, I’m thinking more about cruising and retirement (Im 54). Back then, my companion was also totally not into anything floating. That is now rectified!
Last year, as a try, we sailed from Gibraltar to Canary Islands, and we both did really well, even if it was quite bumpy (hurricane Leslie had just blown itself out).
Anyways, I have weird old fashion taste in boats, and I’ve always looked at Nonsuch with admiration. And now, the more I think about it, the more they make sense to me for their simplicity.
Although I think for cruising I would like the layout of an Ultra, I came across a Nonsuch 33C (hull #33 I believe) for sale in StCatherines, I have yet to see it, but the price is right as it might need some attention. Ive searched an read a lot through the discussion, but just in case, what should I pay attention to when I go and see it? Anyone know anything about this particular boat?
Or if you do know of an Ultra for a steal, even if it needs attention, let me know!
Stephan,
On a 33 I’m not sure I know the difference between an Ultra and Classic.
My 33 has the layout shown above.
Some do not have the enclosed aft cabin but have a chart table and love seat rather than the two individual seats and folding table starboard amidship.
I am looking at 30C or 30U. The one in StCatherines or Niagara on the Lake is a 30C, hull#33.
Apologies, I think I got it right now! Love the 33, but way out of my price range, funny enough I have noticed 36 being cheaper, but they are a LOT of boat.
I sail a little (by comparison) Nonsuch 22 powered by an outboard. I’m at EYC, like you were (or are ??). You may THINK you are getting old but I AM old, my friend. I had to resort to a “mechanical assist” to raise the sail (all 306 sq. ft. of it) as my #16 ST winch is a single speed and my poor old shoulder rebelled. While I know very little of the N30 (except to say that it is a heavenly, high quality little ship), I am certain that the toughest job onboard is the raising of that humongous sail. Many of these boats have powered winches (not my favourite thing) and many other skippers use “contrivances” (electric drills, etc.) to do this job. Also, these are well-built and heavy boats. They are a breeze to singlehand but I wouldn’t want to be docking one BY MYSELF on a windy day. And, I’d make certain that the anchor windlass ran well.
An alternate to an electric halyard winch (that will protrude into the cabin) is a high-quality 2 or even 3 speed manual #40 self-tailing one. I had to go to a drill as i didn’t want to drop a grand or more on a nice Lewmar 2 speed #40 winch.
Spend the money on a really good survey. Nonsuches are fabulous - a truly comfy boat. Good on you for your Gib to the Canaries trip !!
Thank you Ernie for the info, I am no longer at EYC, it was a great club tho.
Yes, I have read about drill to winch, seems like a decent solution. I was fully anticipating to install a power winch, but that a power drill could be a start.
This guy makes 540 sq' shoot up with no effort at all on my part. I love it and it will charge from my inverter in very short order with almost no noticeable battery drain.
I have the same drill, the only problem i’ve had is the chuck screw snaps if I accidentally reverse it. So i have a few spares on hand. I usually recharge it after every 4 sail raisings as it slows down considerably at that point.
Will B
NS30C #181, Z Fat Cat
Bainbridge Island, WA.
These Milwaukee right-angle beasts are, indeed, the go-to device for this type of operation.
However, they are a tad heavy and one would have cost me, in Canada, close to $1200.00. And, they weigh an awful lot more than my Hilti, which cost me $441.00 plus the winch bit. My Hilti gets my buddy’s sail up real fast on his N26 and rarely needs charging.
A lot of this has to do with what kind of halyard winch you have. If you already own a decent 2 speed self-tailing winch, I am certain that the Hilti would do the job in spades on a Nonsuch 30 (or even bigger). Like the Milwaukee, it is a serious, well-regarded professional tool.
My Hilti, in the right “gear”, cranks out 1100 inch pounds. The Milwaukee gets a bit more. And the Hilti gives me one hell of a nice drill/screwdriver/paint mixer at home. A right angle drill isn’t quite that flexible.
I much prefer this method over an electric winch.
Also, you do realize how much easier cranking a winch would be if you built (or had welded up) an extension handle for your winch handle, right ?/ i had a friend turn an 8" Ronstan handle into a 26" handle with a bit of aluminum. I can crank a winch with my little finger.
I raise the sail with a Winchbit and a regular battery operated Sears hand drill. Though any hand drill will work with a minimum spec of 400 inch pounds of torque. Being smaller it’s much more easier to stow on board and use for other projects than a right angle drill..
These Milwaukee right-angle beasts are, indeed, the go-to device for this type of operation.
However, they are a tad heavy and one would have cost me, in Canada, close to $1200.00. And, they weigh an awful lot more than my Hilti, which cost me $441.00 plus the winch bit. My Hilti gets my buddy’s sail up real fast on his N26 and rarely needs charging.
A lot of this has to do with what kind of halyard winch you have. If you already own a decent 2 speed self-tailing winch, I am certain that the Hilti would do the job in spades on a Nonsuch 30 (or even bigger). Like the Milwaukee, it is a serious, well-regarded professional tool.
My Hilti, in the right “gear”, cranks out 1100 inch pounds. The Milwaukee gets a bit more. And the Hilti gives me one hell of a nice drill/screwdriver/paint mixer at home. A right angle drill isn’t quite that flexible.
I much prefer this method over an electric winch.
Also, you do realize how much easier cranking a winch would be if you built (or had welded up) an extension handle for your winch handle, right ?/ i had a friend turn an 8" Ronstan handle into a 26" handle with a bit of aluminum. I can crank a winch with my little finger.
I guess I’m a bit of a “biggest tool available for the job” guy when it comes to this sort of thing. I don’t find the weight a problem with the Milwaukee and only an angle drive would fit in my situation. Even this one is a tight squeeze against the dodger window.
Ernie, sounds like you were shopping in the wrong province. Mine was just under $800 battery and charger in. I though that was bad enough. … but like I said, I love it.
tabbing of bulkeads to hull and fiberglass “furniture”
soft decks/delam due to water intrusion, water damage in general
through hulls (originals don’t meet modern standards)
loose keel bolts/ gap between hull and keel
loose grabrails
saildrive condition (corrosion under water)
weepy rudder/rust marks
osmotic and keel blisters
cracks in welds in boom ends, mainsheet hardware on boom and deck
the usual - plumbing, electrical
This all can be fixed.
Just apply time and money.
Lily Pad had 1,2, a little 3, 4,5,6, a little 9, 10,11
As for the shearing off bolt on the Milwaukee, I simply left t in, broekn and used red loctite to secure the chuck to the drill and prevent it unthreading. So far, so good.
That’s a wonderful list for the “boat shopper” - very comprehensive.
When I bought MOUSTACHES in 2012, there was a bit of play in the mast joint. I am lucky to live a little over an hour from Mike Quill’s shop. He re-built the joint and “re-conditioned” the mast which gives me peace of mind (not a “piece of his mind”).
Stephan - Probably, the only weak point on Nonsuches are their 2-piece masts. Check this out carefully and, if there is any slop or if something looks a little nasty, use it as a legit bargaining point. Don’t be scared off. Get it fixed (call Mike Quill Rigging). It’ll come back better than new and last for years and years.
Given that my boat had most of those things wrong, I certainly have some feelings about that list!
Sadly I’m far from Mike and in a different country. My local high-end boatyard (KKMI) did a very nice job rebuilding the mast joint - it had had all three methods over the years..and the holes to prove it. In the end we redid it using all three methods together (rivets, bolts and tube-bolts). It was nowhere near cheap, easily twice what I had budgeted, but it should last as long as I will continue to sail.
Good list. All I would add is 12) the mast step. Be sure the glass is solid, the screws all have good threads, no signs of wear at all, tie down is present and in good condition. Nonsuches need the same inspection as any glass boat - except for that big stick up front and no standing rigging.
BTW, is that the boat with the original owner, been on the hard a few years?
Something else to think about. N22s and N26s were the only Nonsuches built with solid fibreglass hulls. All of the bigger ones had balsa cores sandwiched between an inner and outer layer of fibreglass. ALL Nonsuches have balsa-cored hulls but, in key areas, they are either solid fibreglass or the core (I think) is plywood, for added strength.
ALL of these boats were beautifully built (thank heaven) but osmosis and delamination issues in a vessel with a cored hull are more complex to repair (read: $$$$$) than a solid glass hull. I remember seeing a Nonsuch sitting on a cradle in the RCYC yard a few years ago, with its “wooden ribs” sticking out of the bottom of the hull, just above the keel. Truly nightmarish.
Honestly, I would think that what occurred on that boat was a rare. Still, spend the time (and money) to get a good, comprehensive survey of the hull, just to be safe.
Thank you Ernie for the consideration, yes, I will get a survey for sure.
Thanks Al, I will go see the boat probably this week.
We did go visit a nice 30U yesterday, I am still not sure which layout is better. I did search through the archives, but did not find much. Cockpit slightly bigger on 30C (by inches), more storage on 30C? Though physically yesterday the 30U appear to have a lot of storage.
What are the Pros and Cons to a 30U vs 30C for long term cruising? I’m talking about ICW and Bahamas down the road for a good 9 months.
